kersh

I have seen it done with a 306.I don't mean the mid engined, tube chassis rally cross beasts.
I mean normal road car with 2.0l cosworth under the bonnet and 4wd running gear.
I really like the look of the new 07 onwards bravo,

so is it possible?

who could do it, I was thinking BBR?

The cost?

The likely outcome?

Anyone got any experience of these sort of projects?

The Chief

Its been done to a Fiat Strada, all the running gear everything. it was in Max Power years ago

Playsatan

iTrader: (2)

Is this a joke? I'll assume not and answer your questions anyway

so is it possible? Doubt it. You'd have to be a stark raving lunatic to even contemplate such a foolish/pointless/worthless project such as this.

who could do it, I was thinking BBR? Never heard of them, have they put 18 year old ford running gear and transmission into brand new Fiats before. If so, then yes, definitely them

The cost? All of you spare cash for the rest of you life and most of your sanity I'd wager.

The likely outcome? Divorce and a social worker.

Anyone got any experience of these sort of projects? There must be a few maddies out there somewhere but the chance of them still owning a computer, or a house to use it in and reply to you is remote.

HTH

P.s. Please take this in the spirt in which it was meant and put this mad idea to bed.

rob878

Perky555 is busy putting subaru running gear underneath a MK1 escort, last i heard he's still solvent.

If you have the required skills then a viable project, if paying for others to do the work, then would probably empty your bank account.

joey_turbo

iTrader: (26)

for what its worth, a bravo can accomodate the 5 cylinder 2 litre 20v Turbo engine, horizontily opposed . I think cossie 4wd engines are longitude in fitment so without messing loads with floorpans, you might be better off with an mitsu evo engine and running gear.
sounds interesting. keep us posted if you go ahead.

TopBanana

Why cossie 2.0? Pretty old technology these days

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Now i've thought of doing this and its a worthwhile project.
But to do it to a fiat bravo its a fiat bravo for christ sake
at least if you are going to do it do it to a car that will be worth something when you've finnished it.. but hey it's your money spend it how you like..
p.s any links to perky's project..

Simon 69

A massive job and the fact that you have to ask means that you cant do it. Hth.

BLU

iTrader: (27)

Almost anything is possible given enough time and money

MK1 Escort with WRX running gear!!!

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

how about doing a calibra 4 x 4 and swap the running gear to a scooby lump etc, should be a lot easier and will make a stylish looking and great sounding coupe

(it will stil be a barge though )

davegtt

Been done to a Reno 5 before, awesome car it was too until it caught fire and burnt out

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Hello err just buy a v3 type r or a p1 if you want to spend more money..

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

I was answering the OP (original poster) he is obviously after doing a project of some sorts. My post was merely an idea, as it would be rare, but it should also be relatively easy to do

RJM25R

iTrader: (1)

Yes it's possible.

BBR wouldn't do the fabrication but they'd build you an engine.

£impossible to price, but £15k would be my estimate.

Outcome? An empty wallet and a rubbish fiat with cossie equipment

Experience? Not personally with Cossie, but having built 2xXE Nova's and also knowing Ian Birch personally (Used to run Dubsport and put twin/rear engines into all kinda VW stuff) and having seen the depth of the engineering knowhow and skill required makes me agree with a previous post, where someone has said that if you need to ask, you ain't doing it"!

Devildog

You'd need a bespoke floorpan and bulkheads. Bespoke front subframe to hold the engine/box/diff/steering.

Or you could cut out the ford floorpan/bulkheads etc and graft the relevant bits to the Fiat shell (having cut away much of the Fiat).

Propshaft would probably need to be changed, and you would have to compare front and rear tracks to see what was required there.

Could be done, not that difficult for someone with the expertise and the resources.

Would cost you more than £15k I recon. More like £30k.

kersh

well, thanks for all the replies, very informative!
I am talking about the new shape bravo, if that makes a difference.
It wouldn't have to be cosworth lump, but it appears the 4wd is the difficult part.I thought just attach a rear diff to the back and send a prop under the floor to it.
It would make a brilliant sleeper,but if it was to turn in to a money pit and be a crap handling car at the end, I might not bother.I have not got the skills to do it my self, so would be paying some one.
Are there any current 4wd smaller hot hatches,smaller than 08sti/r32/s3 etc
made at present?

rob878

You would have to engineer some way of attaching a transfer box to your current box or find a substitute, there's a guy on turbosport that has used an audio tt box on a zetec engine as part of his fiesta project, which required a one off mounting plate/. Then remodel the centre of your floor for the prop tunnel, possibly enlarged for the gearbox, depending on whether you decide on a longitudinal or transverse engine , decide whether you wanted a live rear end or IRS. If IRS, what axle would you use, would the existing suspension points be in the right place for your new rear end.

At the moment thats just the basic things of the top of my head, and I haven't given it that much thought.

If you are still after a project, the a 405MI16 4x4 transplant into a 205gti, is far more doable, but still a lot of hard work.

Eddie1980

Yer "just attach a rear diff and put a prop shaft under the floor" is like saying "just build a large rocket and point it at the moon" when summerising the Apollo program.

IF it really were "just" then there would be way more people doing it... now think, how often do you see it done?

mamoon2

Well, a Bravo is the same size as R32/S3 etc... How small do you want?

If you've got that sort of money to waste, don't waste it on a bloody Fiat Bravo, get an S3 and chip it to 310bhp, quality build and very fast. Think of it this way, when you come to sell it, who will buy it? NOBODY, thats who!

<dragons den mode> It's a ridiculous idea, don't spend another minute even thinking about it </dragons den mode>

skinters

If you were doing it ALL yourself and pottering away at it on the cheap then worth messing about with assuming you utterly know what you are doing.

But to actually pay someone to do it brings a tear to my eye.

RS Grant

AG Motorsport

If you're serious then thats the person to talk to, he's more used to Focus/Fiesta Cossie conversions and has done work for the Ford WRC team.

I'm sure he will let you know if its possible or not. BUT... and this is a big understatement: this won't be a cheap conversion.


Cheers,
Grant

Spec'c'57

iTrader: (1)

Fit cossie running gear into a fiat seicento, dont mock it i have seen one. Was rather quick, altho possibly dangerous too.

rickya

iTrader: (18)

why....

mozzaITA

My friend years and years ago had a 205 gti with cossie running gear - was awesome when it was running ok..

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

i remember seeing one in the flesh with a full on dimma kit as well in a deep blue. Was stunning

gpssti4

iTrader: (6)

Yes, it's possible, it just depends on how much you want it. I had a 4x4 cossie powered Opel Manta built back in the 90's. I had it until last year when it was stolen.

The company you'll need to contact is D&J Motorsport and speak to David, he's a motorsport engineer - he's built some mad 4x4 Cosworth machines; mk3 Escort, Fiat Strada, 205, Mondeo.

Someone mentioned yours being fwd, well David built a Renault Twingo with evo running gear, but with a Cosworth engine (better developed at the time), so no problems there!

As for price, I'd think if you handed him a car and circa £20-£25k then you'd be in the right ball park.

PM me if you want his details.

As for the doubters; how many people spend over £30k modifying their Impreza?

Paulo P

iTrader: (42)

It might be old but it's still very strong and effective They are stronger than evo engines etc

austinwrx

but in every shape and form the end product will be a rubbish car with old technology.

cosworth may have been fast in its day but it was pig ugly and only owned by a certain type-- as for blending it with a fiat ??????

money pit money pit money pit.

if you want a fast 4 x 4-- I suspect £3K's worth of old imprezza will achieve the same effect.

20 or 30 yrs ago the concept of sleeper cars and to be honest custom cars really was something. now anybody can buy a fast car for virtually pence- because modern cars are just so good and comparatively so quick and well handling.

i.e opel manta- that would have been fantastic and really original in the 90's- much respect to you. there wasn't much to match that then.

it was also quite a evil looking car too !

skinters

yeah - there's a recession on!!

So - for the 15-20k that this will cost you can have:

A Fiat Brava

OR

This

2002 Porsche 911 996 Carrera 4 Coupe on eBay, also, Porsche, Cars, Cars, Parts Vehicles (end time 13-Nov-08 11:52:01 GMT)


hmm decisions decisions (that was in 10secs of searching so you can improve on that massively)

mozzaITA

never understood people who actually hand over large amounts of cash for somebody else to do it - fair play if your handy with the spanners and make the monster yourself but to actually hand over all that cash....... oh well each to their own.