noobyscooby

PistonHeads Headlines

Nice car - far better than the current Screweditupforu

Tidgy

300bhp + fwd = pointless

richs2891

wheelspin city !

My old Civic Type R was bad in the wet - wouldnot even think about the above unless owned a tyre company !

Richard

stilover

Agreed. Deffo need AWD, just like the new Focus RS does.

I'm now driving a Golf GT sport (170) and found out yesterday that I miss AWD. Slowed down as a car turned off the road, booted it in second gear (as I would in my old Impreza) and got wheelspin, then a slap on the wrist off TC. Roads were damp but not wet.

Realised then that I want AWD again. All the power, all the time.

skinters

Agree on FWD in 1st gear

But in 2nd I can put down 340bhp and 370ft lbs on 205 profile Eagle F1s with an LSD and no TCS. (just)

And in 3rd, most 4WD cars are left for dust

Horses for courses. Maybe I am just jealous of all those 1st gear drag starts that I can't do.

delcbr

what car you got?

skinters

ha - '96 Saab 9k Aero. Now approx 400bhp/400ftflbs which offically blows my statement above for 2nd gear. Maybe some wider tyres might help...
And tbh, 4WD would be lovely (sigh)
3rd is hugely entertaining now though but it's such a dull car no-one notices.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

My 9-3 has 250 bhp and 288 "Torquey things" and it will spin its wheels in the wet but its by no means as bad as you would expect, my old one 150 bhp and 177 lbs ft was far far worse, you cant compare a modern FWD car with old fast Astra's and the like that span for fun, in the dry mine is pretty impossible to spin in normal driving, its just not an issue.

Tyre's make the most difference, my old Fiat Coupe came with some cheap tyres that were past their best, replaced with brand new Conti's its was a different car.

Ok, Fwd isnt everyones idea of fun, but RWD and AWD make a very small percentage of the total world car production, especially cars that come to the uk which are typically smaller and more economical models, they arent going to re-engineer everything for enthusiasts, AWD adds weight and complexity along with worse economy and less power at the wheels, it doesnt always make for an exciting driving experience (most 4wd Audi's ?), I saw a chap in a BMW going sideways in his boggo 3 series the other day, and I thought, hmm, drifter, respect, no he had just put his foot down, the look of terror in his eyes showed that RWD isnt exactly the best for putting power down in the wet either, a bit better due to the weight transfer and definitely more fun if you know what you are doing but a 300 bhp RWD turbo Seat would also struggle to put its power down.

I think a bit of torque steer is quite good fun anyway, if you arent getting any oversteer, anyway, just be grateful Seat and co are still making 300 bhp snorters or otherwise it will be more Bluemotion diesels which are also FWD but with a detuned Diesel engine !

dunx

iTrader: (3)

Sorry but I'd go for an A3 TDi Quattro or a Golf TDi 4-Motion.

But it would have to be a second car...

DunxC

skinters

both sound painfully dull and dreary but sensible none the less. More company car fodder, no?

RyanSTI

iTrader: (1)

you'd never put the power down in a 300hp fwd car. would be fun though, but i just dont like seats.

jespin

These modern hatches put 300 bhp down far better than you would expect actually... I know of a certain Golf GTI with in excess of 300 bhp and although 1st gear is a waste of time, from then on it's actually pretty good.

MooseRacer

my 300bhp Citroen AX will grip once into second.

Sort of. With around twice the weight the Seat will be "alright" though i'd rather have the rear wheels spinning any day

mattbeef

You just need to learn how to feed in the power with that much through the front wheels. Plenty of big turbo golfs/octavias/leons etc with that power that manage

El Cat

read about volvos before and they reckon that anything over about 210bhp is too much for FWD cars
then my mate turened up one day to pick me up in his 315bhp volvo 850 T5

see why police use them! straight line mental speed
trying to accelerate was a wste of time in the wet though, rae a few AWD models out there but rare as rocking horse poop!

davecweed

yeah you dont see many about, but Ive got one, S60R awd, lol, works well

haroldhettaturbo

iTrader: (2)

had a 230 bhp calibra turbo.

when it was running 2wd i could spin the wheels in 3rd in the dry lol

bpm1588

on the seat forums there's loads of cupra's well over those figure's.the tfsi fitted in the cupra,ed30 and s3 just needs a map to see 300+.even though they are rated at 240/230/265 most cars make a lot more on the rollers with some s3's over 290 bog standard

bpm1588

after a while you will put up with the lack of traction when you start to see hundreds of pounds more in your bank every month

Andy M3

skinters

With a 400bhp crank front wheel drive car, I am getting approx 350bhp at the wheels.

In a 4WD car like a scooby, I THINK the wheel bhp is more like 320bhp with the same crank output?

And this is only relevant in 3rd gear when the FWD can get full traction and boost but it's not a bad reward for cr4ppy 1st and 2nd gear traction.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=MooseRacer;8170016]my 300bhp Citroen AX will grip once into second.
QUOTE]

Care to elaborate, a 300 bhp AX is relevant to my interests.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Yes, my Saab was a derivative of that Chassis, i.e. a Cavalier, even the old 2.0 GLsi was a wheelspin monster at 110 bhp, its just a ropey chassis by todays standards.

delcbr

your car sounds interesting can you tell us all a bit about it and how it came to make that power and youtube clips?

delcbr

same for you interested in knowing how you manged to get 400 ponies!!

delcbr

torque steer=fun to drive it has a bit of character

Dream Weaver

Why do people just assume high power and FWD don't mix?

My Focus is 275bhp and 330 "torquey things" and I have no problem putting the power down.

We had a Focus STOC run in the Yorkshire Dales on Sunday, 150 miles of pure drivers roads, and doing the reverse route that the old "Dales Runs" of Scoobynet used to do. Cars ranged from std 225bhp right up to 350bhp and over 400 ft/lbs!!

None of us were holding back on the fast roads, and not once did I have an issue with traction, ESP was turned off as well. Even coming out of some of the hairpins around Hubberholme, I could just turn and boot it and marvel at how quickly it got up to speed without wheelspin or traction issues.

We used to do that in the Scooby's back in 2001 ish and it was no better than my modern FWD.

In the wet there can be issues, but driving quickly in the wet is both boring and stupid so not much advantage there.

My car will soon be nearer to 300bhp and it will still be good, and I will have no worries about traction.

Conversely my 200bhp 205 was ridiculous for traction and would break it in the dry in any gear!!

skinters

Ahh - Aside from a pile of other stuff over the years, core to the actual power output is
Garrett GT3071r turbo 0.64,
3" exhaust from turbo back
injectors,
fuel pump
bigger I/C
and cheeky remap.

Runs about 1.7bar in the midrange and spools in hard from 3k rpm.
Good tough old Saab block means stock internals are good for 470bhp ish, 165k miles, unopened. Just bolt up on the outside!
There's another 50whp waiting if I put some faster cams in though but have run out of cash.

Old but tough and fun. I don't expect miracles on handling but I've got it pretty damn good, relatively.

Totally stock outside to starting to be quite stealthy in it's old age.

trails

iTrader: (41)

most people are just repeating what other people have said and don't forget the 4WD Impreza is the best handling car ever

One of my friends has a 260bhp Starlet (around 800kgs iirc), and its a hoot to drive or be driven in, wheel spin is all part of the experience

Janspeed

iTrader: (1)

I test drove a Golf V GTI with 255 PS yesterday, and it only spun in first gear once or twice. Surpised me quite a lot, as it was driven full pelt 99% of the drive!

A Queef (Quaife) diff would help.