300+ bhp / 300+ torquey things / 160+ MPH SEAT
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300bhp + fwd = pointless
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wheelspin city !
My old Civic Type R was bad in the wet - wouldnot even think about the above unless owned a tyre company ! Richard |
Originally Posted by rsarjantson
(Post 8169171)
wheelspin city !
I'm now driving a Golf GT sport (170) and found out yesterday that I miss AWD. Slowed down as a car turned off the road, booted it in second gear (as I would in my old Impreza) and got wheelspin, then a slap on the wrist off TC. Roads were damp but not wet. Realised then that I want AWD again. :( All the power, all the time. |
Agree on FWD in 1st gear
But in 2nd I can put down 340bhp and 370ft lbs on 205 profile Eagle F1s with an LSD and no TCS. (just) And in 3rd, most 4WD cars are left for dust :) Horses for courses. Maybe I am just jealous of all those 1st gear drag starts that I can't do. |
Originally Posted by skinters
(Post 8169562)
Agree on FWD in 1st gear
But in 2nd I can put down 340bhp and 370ft lbs on 205 profile Eagle F1s with an LSD and no TCS. (just) And in 3rd, most 4WD cars are left for dust :) Horses for courses. Maybe I am just jealous of all those 1st gear drag starts that I can't do. |
ha - '96 Saab 9k Aero. Now approx 400bhp/400ftflbs which offically blows my statement above for 2nd gear. Maybe some wider tyres might help...
And tbh, 4WD would be lovely (sigh) 3rd is hugely entertaining now though but it's such a dull car no-one notices. |
My 9-3 has 250 bhp and 288 "Torquey things" and it will spin its wheels in the wet but its by no means as bad as you would expect, my old one 150 bhp and 177 lbs ft was far far worse, you cant compare a modern FWD car with old fast Astra's and the like that span for fun, in the dry mine is pretty impossible to spin in normal driving, its just not an issue.
Tyre's make the most difference, my old Fiat Coupe came with some cheap tyres that were past their best, replaced with brand new Conti's its was a different car. Ok, Fwd isnt everyones idea of fun, but RWD and AWD make a very small percentage of the total world car production, especially cars that come to the uk which are typically smaller and more economical models, they arent going to re-engineer everything for enthusiasts, AWD adds weight and complexity along with worse economy and less power at the wheels, it doesnt always make for an exciting driving experience (most 4wd Audi's ?), I saw a chap in a BMW going sideways in his boggo 3 series the other day, and I thought, hmm, drifter, respect, no he had just put his foot down, the look of terror in his eyes showed that RWD isnt exactly the best for putting power down in the wet either, a bit better due to the weight transfer and definitely more fun if you know what you are doing but a 300 bhp RWD turbo Seat would also struggle to put its power down. I think a bit of torque steer is quite good fun anyway, if you arent getting any oversteer, anyway, just be grateful Seat and co are still making 300 bhp snorters or otherwise it will be more Bluemotion diesels which are also FWD but with a detuned Diesel engine ! |
4wd
Sorry but I'd go for an A3 TDi Quattro or a Golf TDi 4-Motion.
But it would have to be a second car... DunxC |
both sound painfully dull and dreary but sensible none the less. More company car fodder, no?
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you'd never put the power down in a 300hp fwd car. would be fun though, but i just dont like seats.
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These modern hatches put 300 bhp down far better than you would expect actually... I know of a certain Golf GTI with in excess of 300 bhp and although 1st gear is a waste of time, from then on it's actually pretty good.
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my 300bhp Citroen AX will grip once into second.
Sort of. With around twice the weight the Seat will be "alright" though i'd rather have the rear wheels spinning any day :) |
You just need to learn how to feed in the power with that much through the front wheels. Plenty of big turbo golfs/octavias/leons etc with that power that manage
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read about volvos before and they reckon that anything over about 210bhp is too much for FWD cars
then my mate turened up one day to pick me up in his 315bhp volvo 850 T5 see why police use them! straight line mental speed trying to accelerate was a wste of time in the wet though, rae a few AWD models out there but rare as rocking horse poop! |
Originally Posted by El Cat
(Post 8170353)
read about volvos before and they reckon that anything over about 210bhp is too much for FWD cars
then my mate turened up one day to pick me up in his 315bhp volvo 850 T5 see why police use them! straight line mental speed trying to accelerate was a wste of time in the wet though, rae a few AWD models out there but rare as rocking horse poop! |
had a 230 bhp calibra turbo.
when it was running 2wd i could spin the wheels in 3rd in the dry lol |
Originally Posted by noobyscooby
(Post 8168431)
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Originally Posted by stilover
(Post 8169308)
Agreed. Deffo need AWD, just like the new Focus RS does.
I'm now driving a Golf GT sport (170) and found out yesterday that I miss AWD. Slowed down as a car turned off the road, booted it in second gear (as I would in my old Impreza) and got wheelspin, then a slap on the wrist off TC. Roads were damp but not wet. Realised then that I want AWD again. :( All the power, all the time. |
Originally Posted by dunx
(Post 8169743)
Sorry but I'd go for an A3 TDi Quattro or a Golf TDi 4-Motion.
But it would have to be a second car... DunxC |
With a 400bhp crank front wheel drive car, I am getting approx 350bhp at the wheels.
In a 4WD car like a scooby, I THINK the wheel bhp is more like 320bhp with the same crank output? And this is only relevant in 3rd gear when the FWD can get full traction and boost but it's not a bad reward for cr4ppy 1st and 2nd gear traction. |
[QUOTE=MooseRacer;8170016]my 300bhp Citroen AX will grip once into second.
QUOTE] Care to elaborate, a 300 bhp AX is relevant to my interests. |
Originally Posted by haroldhettaturbo
(Post 8170616)
had a 230 bhp calibra turbo.
when it was running 2wd i could spin the wheels in 3rd in the dry lol |
Originally Posted by MooseRacer
(Post 8170016)
my 300bhp Citroen AX will grip once into second.
Sort of. With around twice the weight the Seat will be "alright" though i'd rather have the rear wheels spinning any day :) |
Originally Posted by skinters
(Post 8171055)
With a 400bhp crank front wheel drive car, I am getting approx 350bhp at the wheels.
In a 4WD car like a scooby, I THINK the wheel bhp is more like 320bhp with the same crank output? And this is only relevant in 3rd gear when the FWD can get full traction and boost but it's not a bad reward for cr4ppy 1st and 2nd gear traction. |
torque steer=fun to drive it has a bit of character
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Why do people just assume high power and FWD don't mix?
My Focus is 275bhp and 330 "torquey things" and I have no problem putting the power down. We had a Focus STOC run in the Yorkshire Dales on Sunday, 150 miles of pure drivers roads, and doing the reverse route that the old "Dales Runs" of Scoobynet used to do. Cars ranged from std 225bhp right up to 350bhp and over 400 ft/lbs!! None of us were holding back on the fast roads, and not once did I have an issue with traction, ESP was turned off as well. Even coming out of some of the hairpins around Hubberholme, I could just turn and boot it and marvel at how quickly it got up to speed without wheelspin or traction issues. We used to do that in the Scooby's back in 2001 ish and it was no better than my modern FWD. In the wet there can be issues, but driving quickly in the wet is both boring and stupid so not much advantage there. My car will soon be nearer to 300bhp and it will still be good, and I will have no worries about traction. :) Conversely my 200bhp 205 was ridiculous for traction and would break it in the dry in any gear!! :D |
Originally Posted by delcbr
(Post 8171360)
same for you interested in knowing how you manged to get 400 ponies!!
Garrett GT3071r turbo 0.64, 3" exhaust from turbo back injectors, fuel pump bigger I/C and cheeky remap. Runs about 1.7bar in the midrange and spools in hard from 3k rpm. Good tough old Saab block means stock internals are good for 470bhp ish, 165k miles, unopened. Just bolt up on the outside! There's another 50whp waiting if I put some faster cams in though but have run out of cash. Old but tough and fun. I don't expect miracles on handling but I've got it pretty damn good, relatively. Totally stock outside to starting to be quite stealthy in it's old age. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2.../car/front.jpg |
Originally Posted by Dream Weaver
(Post 8171367)
Why do people just assume high power and FWD don't mix?
One of my friends has a 260bhp Starlet (around 800kgs iirc), and its a hoot to drive or be driven in, wheel spin is all part of the experience :notworthy |
Originally Posted by jespin
(Post 8169927)
These modern hatches put 300 bhp down far better than you would expect actually... I know of a certain Golf GTI with in excess of 300 bhp and although 1st gear is a waste of time, from then on it's actually pretty good.
A Queef (Quaife) diff would help. |
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