porkerboy

Thinking of trading my 996 turbo in for a 335D (M-sport).

Doing 110 mile a day commute - porker just becoming too expensive with regards to running costs and feels a shame to rack the miles up just down the motorway everyday.

I need to get a diesel. 335d has 286bhp - more torque than the porker - and should do mid 40mpg on a motorway blast.

They all come as automatics with wheel mounted paddles.

I know the BM isnt going to be as quick or probably as much fun to drive - but seems a good compromise.

I am doing the right thing?!

Porkerboy.

ak47mh

I have been looking at one of these recently also in the Touring form, I think the really impressive figure is the 428 ibs/ft of torque as you mention. I find my pocket a lot lighter these days also filling up my B6 S4 Avant, especially when these cars do like Super.. Yet I have the bonus of working from home as I definitely couldn't justify a 110 mile commute everyday in it.

It seems a good choice anyway, but not sure you would miss the occasion of the Porsche and the sound when hearing a deisel. Could you buy a cheaper (crappier) car to run for work and save the 911 for the weekends and special occasions? Although two sets of running costs isn't always cheaper.

Cheers,
Ant

NACRO

The 335D is a great car. I'd consider one as a daily beater but there's no way I'd trade down from my 996 into one. A good second car for sure but why not just buy a 4 yr od Mondeo diesel for a few grand and schlep up and down the motorway in that most days?

Work out the economics very carfully- a 335D is going to return low to mid 40's to the gallon. I reckon to get between 21-25mpg out of the 996, factor in the price premium for diesel fuel and that the 335D is likely to depreciate more than the 996 and I don't think the savings outweigh the difference in satisfaction behind the wheel.

GCollier

I had a 335d in M-Sport Touring form for 18 months and only sold it a few weeks ago.

As a complete all-rounder when you take into account performance, handling, build quality, running costs and practicality, it's pretty much unbeatable. For a diesel they don't even sound too bad. Fuel consumption I averaged about 35mpg over the 9k miles I owned it. You can get just over 40mpg but you'll need a very gentle foot and a steady motorway cruise to do so.

So why did I sell it? Well with child number three on the way it's just too small (you can't fit 3 child seats in the back), so for family duties we upgraded my wife's car to a Ford S-Max 2.5T - which opened up the option of a "fun" car for me. Exceptional though the 335d is - every journey is a pleasure - it's just not the sort of car you feel inspired to pick up the keys and just drive for the hell of it. So after it had languished in the garage for a few weeks after buying the ford, I got rid and have just bought a Boxster 3.4S (for which I'll use any excuse to grab the keys and take it for a spin).

Gary.

GCollier

If you need an avant/touring I don't think you'll be disappointed with a 335d compared to your Audi. I had a B6 S4 as a loan car for a week when I had my RS6, and the BMW is a much better car than the S4. (It's also more fun to drive than my RS6 was).

Gary.

51st state

my mate was out in his lotus exige-S (supercharged 214bhp) and got this bmw up his rear so floored it but couldn't leave it so moved over and it went passed what was worse it said 335d on the boot

another mate has a 535d with remap, it has 170mph on the clock, it will go off the clock with some right foot still there

fookin excellent cars

but i wouldn't swap one for pamela anderson
have you seen her on "sunday night project" now !!!! on channel 4

scoobyverysoon

iTrader: (1)

You dirty perv









I like your style H

j-k

Ive had my 335d msport for a few months now...cracking car.

On a good run it will do 39/40 mpg but on mixed motoring with some hefty right foot action it will drop to mid 30's.
Paddle shift thingy can be good if you feel the need to be more involved and push on a bit, but generally i like mine in lazy boy mode for the longer journeys.
It's a great all rounder with plenty of power....ticks most of the boxes for me.


jon

lunar tick

iTrader: (2)

That supercharged Exiged should be checked over as they're meant to be pretty ballistic

A couple of weeks ago I had a 335D up my backside coming off a roundabout at the start of a long empty dual carriageway up a steady incline and I gave him a good spanking, putting at least 6 car lengths between us as I accelerated up to 120 leptons/h (yes, he WAS trying). I then pulled over and slowed down and he went past at licence-breaking speeds, but I had made my point - an MD321H mapped for 10% methanol rocks

Alan C

One of my mates has just alerted me to this (Cheers Dave) so I thought I'd put my 2 penneth in..

I've just sold on my Type 20 and moved 'up' to a 335D M Sport saloon. Various reasons for this, but the fuel, insurance, Road tax and general upkeep expense meant that the £ savings were significant. I used the Scoob as a daily drive and on moving I've saved myself £150 per month on fuel and insurance alone. Having 3 services per year (plus additional bits) have saved me another several hundred pounds over the year. My Mrs has medical conditions that meant the AST suspension and rawness of the car knocked her about a bit.. so practicality was also a factor

I did the swap 2 days before 5 of us from the WYIOC went on Stelvio tour for the week, so I can say that I've tested the car in the most arduous driving conditions mixing it with 3 Scoobs (Various states of tune including the AET Turbos Scoob and an Elise)

As a first acid test, I did a rolling acceleration with a 380 BHP Scoob. This was just in 'Drive' and on flooring it, the kick down pulled me neatly away from the Scoob. Knocking it into Manual and it would have been quicker still. So I'd say that the immense Torque will make overtaking and general rolling acceleration equal to almost anything this side of a proper supercar.

As you'd expect over the week, we drove some immense roads (which you can see on the various pics in the WYIOC area)... On the fast flowing stuff, the D kept up without any issues. On the Davos to Stelvio road, we arrived at the bottom with me right behind two lead scoobs, with the front one having smoking brakes. The BM's brakes are stunning. I had no fade and no issues with them at anytime when pushing hard. Even with the extra 200kg, I'd say they were much better than my old Brembos offering a lot of feel and stopping power. When we got to the real switch backs, the BM's weight told. The Scoobs and Elise would open up a few hundred yard gap over a good few KM's. So definitely not up there with the Scoobs when 10/10ths driving was
needed.

Fuel economy is where I still smile. I averaged 38 on the 2,500 mile trip and this was with lots of hard driving in places. On the final drive back from Brienz (Switzerland) to the UK I managed to get the whole way back to Maidstone (600 miles) with 34 still showing on the OBC. This is on a 60 Litre tank; so about 48 MPG that included a mixture of motorway and town work and sitting at about 75-80. I'm not here to hark on about the money, but the economy is phenomenal for such a performance based Twin Turbo 3 Litre.

The Paddles and gearbox are superb. The changes are seamless and ultra quick and the box is totally suited to the engine. When pressing on the up changes have no effect on the accelereration at all. no descernable bleeding of power on the change.. Just keep your foot down. You can leave it in D for those lazy days, but knocking it into Sport, sharpens up the gear changes and you can really enjoy the car. It's not totally manual. When pressing on some of the real twisty stuff, I made the error of changing down just before the redline and it thankfully just ignored me (probably saying idiot to itself ) It will also change up at the redline. Apart from the times when that helps when pushing on, it can be an annoying problem as you may want to hold it there for a reason, but it'll change up for you regardless. This caught me out on a number of occasions where I was caught in totally the wrong gear for a sharp uphill bend. But again this was only when pushing hard chasing the Scoobs... One surprise was engine braking. For a 3 Litre, I'm surprised at how little engine braking forces there are. This is still a problem for me as I used to drive the scoob on the engine a lot (smooth flowing and setting the car up for a bend without using the brakes) but the BM needs lots of brakes. I'm still working this out. Some of this is down to not being able to hear the engine... there's a slight increase in growl above 2k revs, but there's not real noise to help when driving aurally.

The M Sport seats are joy too. They're probably the best I've ever used.

Drive it like a diesel. Also remember to drive it like a Diesel and not a petrol car. The Torque band is fairly narrow, but you do need to learn how to exploit it. It took me a few days to work it out.. but now that I have... Joy. One other benefit is not having to 'worry' about the fuel you're putting in. Just load it with D and away you go...

Overall build and toys. I've got most of the toys on mine (see my profile) and again, these make driving a real joy. I feel they don't take away the driving experience, they just make you forget a lot of the smaller things (auto lights, wipers & dimming mirror etc) and concentrate on driving. I rarely keep it D as I just enjoy exploiting the torque waves and shifting using the paddles.... next will be to turn off the DTC and DTS and play..

Suspension. For me (having driven AST's) the M Sport suspension is a little too soft. Not unduly or even causing an issue on the Stelvio run, but tightening it up may be better for my style. This may be down to the Run Flat Tyres (which usually get bad press).. so I'll report back when these have been swapped out.

All in all I'm very impressed with it and (flamesuit on) I don't miss the scoob. I do lust after the rawness and 10/10ths ability of the T20, but that only came rarely and swiftly on hard drives with the club or when playing. At the moment, the performance difference isn't enough to make me even think of wanting to go back. If I did, I'd probably go the Caterham route and make it a 'proper' raw drivers car.

For those ready to pounce (yes you Dave) it's not just a Diesel thing that I'm hooked into here.. it's the package that BMW have put together...

Next thing on the cards is possibly an eMaps upgrade. This will take it to 350 BHP and well over 500 Ft Lbs... Now that will be something special for a £400 investment.

Hope that gives you a small insight? I'd be happy to expand any areas if I've not bored you....

Al.

IwantAscoob

keep the porker, and get a focus or something, Why sell the porsche ?

Alan C

As mentioned in the initial post....

Increasing running costs are going to take their toll on fuel hungry cars over the coming few years. The Government have made it clear that high CO2 output cars are going to get hit hard. Scoobs (majority) are in the top bracket road tax at £440, new tax is going to be a hefty price too and Fuel costs continue to go through the roof. These running costs are likely to increase as the number of cars increase and the green lobby gets stronger and they try and tax you off the road.

Residuals on Porche's and other such performance cars are going to get worse as they become increasingly difficult for those people who work hard and make sacrifices to keep their P&J on the road. At some stage these sacrifices can't be justified. Therefore these tax rises only hit those who make moderate money and who break the bank to run a car they've idolised and lusted after for years.

People with money obviously won't give a toss and you'll see a bigger them and us gap appear...

IwantAscoob

it's true what your saying, But you only live once, If you have to pay extra to drive what you enjoy i think it's worth it.

I can see why a fast diesel is attractive, good power and good economy, But your still going from a 996 turbo which i class as an exotic car to an oil burner.

And your just going to look like a sales rep traveling to a different bmw branch.

NACRO

I think you'll find that residual values on cars like the Porsche Turbo are quite unaffected by the increase in road tax and even fuel-quite unlike luxo barges or large engined family saloons. The only people having problems affording them are those that have stretched themselves financially to own one.
In fact a 911 is one of the most economical 'supercars' out there. Good mpg, cheap insurance and reasonable servicing costs at specialists.

Going down to a bog standard rep mobile, even one as good as the 335D, isn't something you're going to see many 911 owners doing. Put simply the cars are in totally different classes, appealing to totally different markets.

Spyder550

The Exige has a decent amount of BHP but is down a lot on torque compared to the 335d

Had a brief look at the stats and a 935KG Exige depending where you read it has 218bhp and 159ft-lb torque. This comes in at 233bhp/tonne and 170ft-lb torque/tonne. Using stats I found at the same place for the 335d saloon it said 1655kg , 282bhp, and 428ft-lb torque. This comes in at 170bhp/tonne and 259ft-lb torque/tonne.

So for that nice instant overtaking torque curve to dig into the 335d does have a ft-lb torque advantage over the Exige.

Alan C

You only live once is fine if you don't have a spiralling mortgage, increased living costs and a family to feed.

Don't get me wrong, my cars have always been one of my highest priorities and I've made sacrifices to keep them. I am now and I think it's worth it.

But for some, the justification cannot last. I have a sneaky feeling we'll see more...

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

This is what annoys & frustrates me (see my sig too). It must somehow be possible for 1000's of us to club together & take the Govt to court over this? Their Policies (car tax, fuel tax, "congestion" charge, low ozone area charge etc etc) all combine to price us off the road & out of these cars whilst diminishing their value to others at the same time. It will effect us all directly in the pocket when resale time comes around.

A TX.

Alan C

I'd love to think we could make a difference. But the only way is to vote out the current Gov't in the hope the next lot have policies to suit.

I wrote to my MP regarding the new car taxes and letting her know full well that such taxes won't make an ounce of difference to World pollution or even the crap roads around where I live. These new taxes will be thrown into the bigger pot.

I got a stock answer back from a junior, junior secretary that was copied over and over again... without a single question being answered.

It really is obvious that as car drivers get hit harder and harder, and where money really has to be counted to make it through the month, we make sacrifices in other areas such as Holidays and other disposable areas. They know this because we keep coughing up. Car number increase (so does the tax income) and roads just don't get better. The only thing that improves is the advanced Scameras and mobile vans to catch us speeding. There seems to be an endless pit for these despicable items.. With a million cars on the road untaxed, uninsured and unlicensed I really think the money and effort should be going to cath these scum who are obviously flouting the law to everyone elses detriment. Is catching me doing 49 in a 40 really worth the effort that went into the van, technology and admin processes?

This country has gone t!its up big style with hard working and law abiding folk having to work harder and harder to make ends meet whilst meeting the ever increasing cost of living. We have to stand there and watch crims getting slapped on the hand for robbery and people getting a ban on a licence they don't have or intend to have...

Rant over? I don't think so....

v8voodoo

This is where I'd be looking: www.theALPINAregister.com - BMW ALPINA D3 BITURBO Coupe UK pricing and Spec

The B3 is powered by the #23d engine which is a cracker by all accounts.

Alternatively, what about the 123d M coupe..?

Alan C

Not really sure what this gives you over the M Sport.
The only real differences are;

• ALPINA floor mats (Cosmetic)
• ALPINA door sill trims (Cosmetic)
• ALPINA instrumentation (Cosmetic)
• Sport steering wheel covered in Lavalina leather – with Blue / Green stitching (Cosmetic)
• 19” ALPINA alloys – Classic or Dynamic (Cosmetic)
• ALPINA sport suspension (M Sport based with a few small additions that does give some improvements.)
• Front ALPINA spoiler (Cosmetic)
• Rear ALPINA spoiler (Cosmetic)
• ALPINA exhaust system (not heard this or know how effective it is, but probably the best mod on the list)

All in all a cosmetic exercise for the Alpina fan. No real dynamic ability improvements over and above the current stock M Sport model. In fact with only the 2 Ltr D under the bonnet, you're going to be well down on power.

So only worth it if you dig the Alpina brand.

There is a petrol based B3 (based on the 335i) with 360 BHP that's supposed to be far better... But add another £12k.

GCollier

A 335d isn't much of a safe haven from motoring costs though. Diesel is 10% more expensive than petrol which negates some of the mpg advantage. And residuals ain't too pretty either when you're selling - my mint 1 owner car lost 37% of it's list price in 18 months and 9k miles. The budget conscious buyers will be in a 320d or mondeo.

Gary.

GCollier

If you have a 911 and find yourself needing 4 doors and more than 2 proper seats, a 335i/d is probably one of the the best compromises you can make.

Judged purely as a drivers car a 996 is clearly better, but in most other respects the different "class" is purely down to badge/snob value. As an exercise in engineering or build quality I rated my 335d over my 996C2.

Gary.

NACRO

By class I meant totally different sector not snob value (after all Porsche are just mass produced German sports cars these days)and I agree if you need seating for 4 and some boot space the 335D takes some beating.
Build quality I'm not convinced about, BMW have gone downhill since the E39 IMO but then again the 996 has a few dodgy areas.

Alan C

I did say there were sacrifices to be made and I'm happy to make them for the D because it's such a good car.

I agree that D prices are higher. This is plainly down to profiteering from the Oil companies and the Govt (happy to take the extra tax). Mid to late 07 saw D at 99ppl. With the rise in D cars hitting the road to;

1) Avoid the rising Petrol costs
2) Follow the green lead in CO2 emmisions
3) Avoid the rise in Road tax
4) Consciously be more economical

The Oil companies cynically raise the prices to take full advantage of the extra D cars on the road to rasie their profits. This puts the boot into any mealy mouthed crap that politicians and Corporate spout about green house emmissions because if they were really keen to reduce such emmissions they'd look to keep D at it's natural price to encourage more car owners to make the switch, not boost their profits by robbing us..

njkmrs

I remember many moons ago when diesel was far cheaper than petrol .As soon as it became popular the Tax Bandits decided to scam even more cash out of us .Robbing Bustards !!!!!

Makes me heave .Over .

porkerboy

Cheers for the replies fellas.

Alan C : very good review, very very helpful.

I agree that it is a step down from a 996 turbo to a BM 335d,
but the porker is only really a toy. The warranty runs out at 86000 miles and after that expenses can be a killer. The porker has been the most unreliable car I have ever owned - 3 radiators gone, one turbo seized, and one fuel pressure gauge not working (requiring replacement of the entire cockpit display at £1200!). All the above done under warranty however - the turbo alone was over £3000!. Plus figure in a grand for a routine service (once all extras thrown in).

Without a warranty, these cars are a potential financial ticking time bomb.

I thought about buying a piece of crap to use every day - but thought whats the point - I want to drive a nice car every day seeing I spend 95% of my driving time commuting to work every day.

Sniper

SPEN555

Alan,

you gonna give it some beans at the next Blyton day to see how good it really is?

john banks

What about a 335i with a chip (you would end up feeding it 97+ RON though)? With the shorter gearing of the i and the torque peaking at lower RPM it would surely be a considerably faster drive? Economy on some of these late direct injection petrol engines can be excellent, and some of the mapped 335i quarter mile terminals are similar to the 996 Turbo.

Alan C

After looking at mapping a little more closely, there are a few decent mappers around and there's currently a BMW group buy at a facility in Luton where for £350 they'll give you 340 BHP and 500 Ft Lbs with a before and after Dyno run..... So if the 286 & 420 Ft Lbs aren't enough, then you have some headroom.

Spen, I'll be too busy running the day again mate.. (which I'm very happy to do!!)

Blueblaster

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is how you "feel" about all this. If shovelling piles of cash into your Porsche's petrol tank every few days is taking the shine off the car then it doesn't really matter whether you can afford it or not. The shine has gone and no amount of "you only live once" nonsense or even reasoned logic saying that the savings might not be as great as you think will change that.

HTH