Alan C

Was told that a Westfield with this engine would do 15 MPG on a standard (non track run) is this correct????

Seems way too low for me.. I'd have thought even relatively thirsty twin 40's would deliver 30+ on a car as light as a Westfield or Caterham...

Anyone shed any light?

howellsy42

me and a friend just re built a Caterham with a 2.1 pinto lump stage 2 head and twin 40s the guy recons he is get about 28mpg

dpb

at a ton could be spot on

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I had a 1600 GT Capri with that engine, mildly tuned, slight overbore, Weber carb, sports filter and it did around 20 mpg knocking about.

Twin 40's will never be economical !

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

I used to get about 22mpg out of my Westfield, which had a 2.0 Vauxhall XE with twin 45's.

Simon 69

It depends on the size of your chokes, doesnt it? Id expect closer to 30mpg from a 1700cc overbore in a 700kilo car.

Alan C

I'd seen various low 20's figures for a 'normal' car... but the lower Weight would surely mean less throttle and therefore more MPG.. So 30's

I can see some spirited driving taking care of that.... But Andy's 22 (even with the bigger 45's) does scare me as I was looking to save some fuel costs over my T20 using a Westfield as a daily(ish) car.. (if that isn't madness enough with winter approaching )

dunx

iTrader: (3)

Alan,
have/had an IMP on twin forties, 750 Kg soaking wet, never got below 20 mpg, easy to get 40 mpg at a steady 50 mph... as it's running on the idle jets.
Then it would come on the cam and rev to 10k rpm., except in top where it took-off at about 120 mph @ 8000 rpm

Dunx

Good luck, ( you rock hard ba5tard ? )
You'll make it rain for 40 days if you buy it !

Tart Man

I think the main problem with a Westy+ x-flow is most only have a 4speed box

A 1:1 top gear combined with short axle ratio, a pair of DCOEs, and interesting cam and your in low 20mpg territory.

dpb

Wind and rain from this w/e


thank-you for your sacrifice

Alan C

No. No matter how hard I try. Picturing you in an Imp is not something I can imagine...

I am from the Midlands (Black Country to be exact) so what did you expect?

Thanks guys..

Interesting stuff. I'd not considered the older 4 speed with modded cams etc...

I was going to sell the T20 for a new Exige.. but simply can't part with the thing (plus having 2 kids at the weekend doesn't help matters)... so I was going to go for the older Caterham / Westfield... for those days when I wanted to put a different type of smile on my face... May have to see if someone's put a newer engine in with a few more cogs...

I did try a 1.8 Diesel TI Westfield today... Great looking Motor, but a weird drive.. decent torque when moving, but the 1993 Escort Turbo was lacking in the fun factor.. it gets 55 MPG (5 gears), but performance would need to come first...

Tart Man

What a Westy with a Endura/Lynx engine? That's probably the worst diesel unit out there.

Unless its the very lastest (and I mean lastest - as in new shape focus) one with the VGT turbo and finally a decent EMS system that stops it stalling all the time, where it does actually pull away should one inadvertantly pull away in 2nd when turbo isn't spinning. Not that I'm talking from experience or anything

Alan C

It did have a tendency to 'kangaroo' when I pulled away... I was sat quite far back (no rails) and I put it down to the fact I was stretching...

The guy didn't know the Power BH or Torque, but considering the weight, I'd have expected something a lot better, especially in gear with the torque.

Again, me seated well back and probably easy on the right foot, may have contributed, but apart from the handling.. I was a little underwhelmed...or probably expected a lot more....

But I will certainly take your 'not from experience' comments... especially as I'd never seen a DTI powered Westie or Caterham before.....

WRX_Dazza

my mate's one does about 15-20 mpg depending on how much welly you give it.

Brendan Hughes

A diesel westie?

Now I've heard everything

Andy M3

I bet a modern diesel engine would be a pig to drive with all that low down torque and no weight.

Less is more I recon when it comes to these cars. 150hp driven to the ragged edge would be plenty IMO - I have experienced a Caterham with that kind of power on 888's and it was laugh out loud quick

The Chief

Are you after a weekend toy Alan?

what about a Tiger Super Six or an MK with a bike engine in it?

Alan C

Thanks guys.. great feedback... I was ready for and wanting that laugh out loud quickness... but it didn't arrive..

Sub-20 is even scarier as It would be nice for the thing to at least pay for itself in petrol

Chief... It was going to be more a 10 mile blast to work & back toy.... probably 3 or so times a week with some weekend fun taking my lad to football... but the D was a difficult drive... and considering this was a 1993 D, that meant a fairly unsophisticated engine setup that didn't lend itself well to the light weight..

I've heard Bike engine cars are great fun, but probably too compromised for daily use(?) considering the lack of low rev grunt and reverse gears... a work colleagues Husband has a Striker (and we have a dealer just down the road), so may go back to his place..

Still lust after a newish Elise or Exige with a Honda or Audi conversion, but would need to sell the T20 to make that happen... too many kids to justify that (and trust me, I've tried!!)

Brendan Hughes

Alan, that's like trying a 1.3 Impreza GL and saying that a Type-R is crap! A diesel westie is perhaps the stupidest engine/body combo I've ever heard of.

One of the greatest engines (supposedly) was when Caterham put the 1.4 K-series into the 7. Light, simple, free-revving, etc. No need for silly power. And if you're only going 10 miles each way in it, you don't need 600bhp/tonne, surely?

MooseRacer

Westfield actually produced at least 1, many years ago. Strangely enough it didnt catch on....

Tart Man

I agree, but the point is that particular engine is worst diesel to be chosen for such an application...even in neutral it takes over 2 seconds to reach the limiter with no load - so under load its even worse.

A 1.6 Twin cam Ford/PSA/Mazda diesel unit is far superior in power delivery (and lighter), as is the 2.0 or 2.4 Duratorqs....although with the latter I'd like a LSD.

A sensible modern diesel would be an interesting concept, but whoever thought it was feasibleto use a 1.8 Endura D should be sectioned....its an awful engine.

tmo

thats the way to go

or a fisher fury

Alan C

Brendan, I'm not up to date enough on engine / body types to have been wary of the cars driveability going in to the test.

No, I don't need 600BHP/Tonne (I've driven and passenegered my mate's full monty Atom and that would have been too much), but only having such short journeys, I at least wanted something to make me smile for the £6k asking price.

If I sell the T20, then I'd want something to uses every day, rain or shine. The technical feedback here has been an eye opener... Real shame too as the build quality was exceptional... not a single rusty nut to be found anywhere...

Need to keep looking for that Zetec engined one in the same price bracket...

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Having owned both, I certainly wouldn't trade a JDM STI for a Westfield. The Westy is great fun on a clear, dry day, but you'd have to be a masochist to voluntarily drive one in the dark and rain.

I never had any weather gear on mine at all, but I'm led to believe that if you do, it's claustrophobic with the hood up and it steams up easily too. Lots of power, questionable wet grip and poor visibility aren't a great combination IMHO.

As a toy to have AS WELL as the scooby, though, that's a totally different matter - and a lot of fun provided you get a good one. Don't make the mistake I did and buy one that's been built by... let's just say an 'amateur' rather than a professional, OK?

FWIW I had a 2.0 XE with about 150bhp - I'd say on a par in terms of performance with the 240bhp classic I had at the time. Around town and at low speed it definitely had the legs on the scooby - the light weight meant it could surprise a lot of people off the line - but the extra power of the scooby gave it the edge at higher speeds.

Brendan Hughes

Sorry, maybe I didn't explain properly. I dare to say that ANY Caterfield with a respectable petrol engine (I dunno, 120BHP or above) would be pretty good fun; all you need is revs, good throttle response, as the light weight and proximity to the ground/elements means you don't honestly need much power. By that criteria, most diesels would fail as there is not much revs and not much throttle response.

I got my kicks in a 1600 x-flow Dutton for four years, even if I'd get beaten off the lights by 1.6 Sierras; it still FELT fast.

Am I insulting you if I suggest an old MX5? I'm sure you can get one for less than 6k, reliable rain or shine (unlike Caterfields, esp for that budget), and even if the power figures are crap, most on here say they're a real chuckle to drive.

Good luck

billythekid

Hi, just done the planning (and actual run) from Lands End to John OGroats and we had a couple of x-flows on the trip - we had to aim for petrol stops every 130 - 150 miles to make sure everyone got fuel before getting below 1/8 tank - on a 30L tank this works out to approx 7 gallons - and about 21mpg.

Dont forget this was a worst case planning and we always tried to ensure there was 1/8 tank left. I started a "whats your MPG" thread on our forum a while ago to help me with the planning - will get some info later for you.

Alan C

I'd be happy to trade for a modern Exige or Elise that could be used everyday (but that alone wont work around the family needs), but not for Westie or Caterham et al. So I'm resigned to getting an older variant to partner the Scoob.

I don't have the funds to get a more modern engined machine and I'm no snob, but it does seem the X flows are compromised on the MPG that I'd like (but not essential) and potentially power. I take the point that 150 is a good starting point, but feel the 190+ area is more my 'laugh out loud' area and I'd certainly like to keep up with the lads on our runs (one planned for Stelvio in early 08 so that's also a sizeable requirement)... But it does seem I'm very limited with the price having a bearing on the age and ultimate engine combo as well as the build quality...

Brendan - Right, with you now mate . I certainly take you point re power, so some of my requirements seem to answer that. Again, I'd really want to keep up with the faster end of the scale as I have club honour to keep ()

I don't do insulted, but a MX5 is not me at all.. I'm actually looking at a second hand SLK 230 for the Mrs as that is part of the deal for getting my toy..so that should give me the wind in the hair... but not the pleasure...

BTK - Thanks mate, the figures would be of interest, but it seems I've backed myself into a corner in that I'd really have to part with some more readies in order to get a toy that would be up to my awkward requirements of decent(ish) MPG, be able to use fairly frequently and the ability to stay with the club cars...

Anyone got an Atom for about 6k???

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

IIRC you can get a major improvement in mpg by removing the carbs and fitting fuel injection - give the guys at SBD Motorsport a call.

Depending on how far you drive the car, it may or may not make economic sense to actually do the conversion - but I used to only get about 100 miles to a tank on mine which was a PITA. Stretching that out to 150 miles would have been well worth it, and was on my to-do list when I sold the car.

billythekid

FWIW the most I ever got out of a tank was 200 miles. (EFI engine though)

Alan, a good friend of mine is selling his x-flow. Its not in perfect condition due to its age but its been very well looked after and the engine is a good spec.

If you are interested let me know and I will pass you his details.

1990 Caterham. Roger King 1700 Crossflow on twin 40's. Forged pistons, lightened, balanced, duplex gear, competition clutch, race side exit exhaust, (reliable 145 bhp) BGH box, Revolution wheels, Yoko 21Rs including unused spare, FIA bar, leather seats, full harness belts.
British racing green with Lotus yellow nose cone. Complete with hood, side screens, tonneau cover and original bench seat if required. Taxed until end Jan 08 and MOT until Aug 08. Some spares available.

billythekid

Oh and to get some "free" power swap the screen for an aero screen - will give you a "boost" of c.20bhp due to reducing the drag Cd by about 30%! Cost is low - IRO £100 if you DIY.

Also, stick some good tyres on (A048s for example) for a bit more traction and less understeer.