MY93WRX

Not that im biased now im driving a TDI. But:

performance – a V12 with power of more than 700 bhp and a torque in excess of 885 lb ft,

http://www.easier.com/view/News/Moto...cle-72667.html

Suresh

Bet it smokes like a burning plastics factory when you put your foot down, like all other diesels

AudiLover

so not as powerful as the R10 then. Great

MY93WRX

Yep Audi did it this year but the peugeot effort is the next level, they are running with full particulate filters, so will probably produce less emisions that a scooby!!

AudiLover

To my knowledge the R10 had full particulate filters aswell. Might be wrong though.

MY93WRX

Looks like it is more powerful, just had a look at the Audi R10 site, that claims in excess of 650bhp, peugeot claim in excess of 700 bhp so unfortunatley the French win that one bloody french

As for particulate filters i can't find the answer to the question did Audi run the R10 with them.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Did you not see the concept of the Peugeot 907?

Tony

AudiLover

That was last years R10, the updated ones got more power!

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Drool

http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/peugeot_907.asp

Tony

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

No thats the latest one

http://www.audi.com/audi/com/en1/exp...i_R10_TDI.html

Tony

jonc

When will we start seeing diesel in F1 I wonder?

flynnstudio

I thought fuel cells were going to be the fuel of the future ?

Wasn't diesel the oldest fuel in an engine and thus it's the fuel of the past making an incredible comeback...?

....filthy dirty black nasty stuff - smoggin up the streets with clouds of black smoke...

Andy M3

Not really. Take 2 examples of equivalent petrol diesel cars:

BMW 530d = 231hp [I think] and 179g/km CO2.
BMW 530i = 258hp and and 212g/km CO2.

So basically the diesel produces 3.46 tonnes of CO2 / annum based on 12k, whereas the petrol produces 4.10 tonnes of CO2 / annum based on 12k, some 640kg [40% of what a diesel smart car produces / annum based on 12k] more each year.

So diesel is clean enough . Out of interest, what car do you drive being an environmentally conscious sort of a person?

flynnstudio

well, I'm not having a go here but I'm not exactly sure were getting the whole truth about diesel - I'm quite prepared to be prooved wrong but tell me what else is in the clouds of black smoke that pours out of every bus, lorry and 4X4 I have to sit behind - great billowing clouds of black toxic gas can't be good right ?....I could be wrong but surely that's not just co2 in that smoke???

I realise that measuring co2 maybe the current boffins politically relevant scale of measurement but I reckon there is *something* worse in that smoke that's not currently on anyone's ecology radar...sooner or later some boffin will release information that there is copious amounts of some *other* currently undisclosed toxic stuff in those black clouds...it's OBVIOUS REALLY isn't it???

I mean it's in the economical interests of our nations to use a cheaper more economical fuel regardless of the toxicity - isnt that how it goes ? cover the truth now - let it leak out in 20 years when were all using hydrogen fuel cells supplimented with a biofuel engine - so it's 'old news' ????

I'm not so sure how friendly it and I don't claim to be some manic greeny but then I don't claim my 'brand of fuel' is superior' and some miracle fuel of the future - but for the record I drive a 1.8litre 138BHP Mr2 spyder with both hot and cold catalysers.

flynnstudio

Since I've been set on this course of enquiry - thought you might find the following of interest...BTW - I'm really not having a go here I'm finding this as intersting as you are...

From the DVLA Tax emmisions website..

BMW 530d NOx emissions (g/km): 0.185

NOx emissions (g/km). Oxides of nitrogen react in the atmosphere to form nitrogen dioxide (NO2) which can have adverse effects on health, particularly among people with respiratory illness. NOx also contributes to smog formation, acid rain and can damage vegetation.

BMW 530d HC+NOx Emissions [g/km] : 0.229

Combined HC and NOx emissions (g/km). Hydrocarbons, contribute to ozone formation. Some kinds of HCs can also be carcinogens and they are also indirect greenhouse gases. Oxides of nitrogen react in the atmosphere to form nitrogen dioxide (NO2) which can have adverse effects on health, particularly among people with respiratory illness. NOx also contributes to smog formation, acid rain and can damage vegetation.

It’s the same RESULT for the petrol BMW or the Diesel - and they also rate the diesel 530d saloon (A6 same as petrol in comparision) at 200g/km not 178.

Not being smary pants here but MR2 NOx Emissions [g/km] : 0.010

So it seems realistically that ENGINE size is the REAL factor...funny thing is diesel economically permits very heavy cars with big engines plus using that economic gain to simply make more powerful cars is hardly accomplishing much is it ?

But regardless those big engines make a INCREDIBLY MASSIVE amount of Nox emmisions compared to my car...I can understand why that particular fact is not bandied about much

Anyway, I'm not a greenie but it seems to me that all vehicles make emmisions but ones with bigger more powerful engines make a sh*t load more.

I can now understand why the government is going to tax the crap out of cars with big engines...it's a survivial issue!

Andy M3

That was a good read flynnstudio.

RB5SCOTT

Anyway back to the subject

Diesel power is the way to go for usable performance, I've been saying it for the past 3 years. A modern diesel engine is far better perfomance wise than a petrol ( being Subaru drivers as all you moan about is torque and driveability you might know where im coming from ) The only reason why diesel power engines don't make as much power is because they dont rev, and will all know that its revs that make power. If you was to take a graph of two cars in camparison, you will see that the diesel kills the petrol everywhere apart from at the top of the rev range.

Now just wait a few years so the techo's can get the diesels to rev a bit further and i can't see why anyone would want to buy a petrol, unless of course the government tax the **** out of diesel but by then will will all be running on chip fat

Regards
Scott, currently driving an M3 cos my mrs would'nt let me have a 535d but at least my workhorse Navara is a diesel

logiclee

It's all down to technology, fueling and particulate filters.

The very latest generation engines are clean but some manufacturers still overboost and overfuel on full acceleration to produce the massive torque figures. Usually seen as a puff of black smoke out the back of a TDCi Ford or TDi VAG under full power. A big cloud of black smoke usually signifies a sticking EGR valve or a more serious problem.

Of course an old bus or truck is more than likely going to have old tech diesel pumps and worn injectors and will spew out all sorts of crap.

An old petrol engine is just as bad although the pollutents are not as visible as the particulates from an overfuelling diesel. Unburnt petrol vapour is far more damaging to the enviroment than unburnt diesel particulates but it is not visible.

Cheers
Lee

scooby_matt

Anyone know the rev limit on these?

AudiLover

thats the first gen R10 im talking gen 2.

scoobydooooo

i totally agree !!

Adam M

why are people confusing CO2 with soot?

soot is the nasty black stuff that stinks, sticks insides your lungs and makes the sky black.

It has nothing to do with greenhouse gas emissions.

QuattroMNC

The R10 does have full particle filters from day 1 so no soot(go to google video and check out some racing vids, you won't see a thing come out), it also boasts 650+ that's a plus after it, means that they're not telling, there are roumours that theres well over 700bhp, by the way, peugeot started a year earlier than audi and are competing a year later, the proof will be when the peugeot hits the track next season. Plus see if the pug can stay on the track, audi have only had 2 retirements, both due to external damage, will the pug be able to compete with that?? and on top of it all what will audi have as new developments for next year?

P.S. don't mean to go on but it's nice to see sum1 else stepping up to audi instead of whinging. Coz Audi are whooping *** at every race they're getting penalised with ever smaller fuel tanks(they still win mind), just wish sum1 else would join in too

TimmyboyWRX

yeah the black stuff is usually unburnt carbon as a result of incomplete combustion of whatever fuel is being burnt.... CO2 is colourless and odourless, as are the NOx nitrogen oxides, and the sulphur dioxide too ( altho that does smell a bit lol) and its these 3 that are responsible for global warming and acid rain ( although the co2 from cars is not as responsible for the greenhouse effect as govnt would have us believe)

sgcooby

In the end of the day a diesel will never sound anything like a petrol engine which for me is one of the most important aspects of my car. He says 4 backboxes and several other exhaust components later. The only way forward from my scoob for me is a car with a V8. I think diesels are great cars but i could never get excited about one while driving it. Even the LE Mans cars i.e R10 have lost it in terms of noise. Imagine all cars sounded like this. Take F1 for example, one of the first things nearly everyone comments on is the unbelievable noise of the engines. It would become pretty boring watching a race in near silence.

lightwave693

if you want full burn of the diesel, add lpg into the mix, gives 99% burn of the diesel instead of the 80% and gives more go! do a search on lpg+Diesel on google.. very good would like to see a 530D+lpg that would be nice i rekon