Jamesemt

...and how much do they weigh?

Reason I'm asking is that I had a little play with one (he didn't realise, as I was trying to keep a similar distance behind).

He could pull away from me very slowly (I was two up with two suitcases in the boot...). I got the impression he was a bit late as he was weaving in and out of traffic - definately giving it some stick.

Quite pleased with my lowly oil burner (I have no doubt at three figures he would have left me for dead...).

Rob D

A E46 M3 has 343 bhp and weigh 1570kg

Andy M3

200hp Ibiza should give them a run in traffic

compshack

How much power 340bhp and 265ft ib of torque. The new shape won't be out till mid next year so I guess it'll be the e46.
I really don't think he was trying, I followed one onto the motorway the otherday and only kept up with him with a 535d re-mapped to 330bhp and 500ftib, so in a 200bhp Ibiza I don't think you stand a chance.

Jamesemt

Yeah, after doing my sums I reckon an M3 is a fair bit quicker...But this guy was trying...maybe it was just badged as an M3??

By new shape M3 I mean anything that's not left hand drive

I would have put money on your 535 destroying an M3 with all that torque??

compshack

Admittedly I was some car lengths behind when joining the motorway caught up with him in traffic, which then cleared he floored it and as I say only just kept up. It then quickly got to 3 figures (and my turn off) so I left the motorway. I think if I had been right behind from the start it would have been differant.
I used to have a M3 CS so I know they can be deceptively quick.

Andy M3

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I suppose its possible for you to hang on to the back of one for a bit as an advantage on paper isnt that much on the road so it can seem like you are doing better than you are, like you say once past a tonne thats when they dissapear, the difference between quick and fast, also a remapped Ibiza will probably match or improve on the M3s torque figure and thats what drags you around.

stilover

Amazing just how many are badged M3. Did it have twin exhausts? Flaired wheel arches? If not, it's rebadged.

Theres a guy that travels on the same back road as me to work and it's badged M3. It's a 328i or a 330i at best.

Sounds to me like it was rebadged, as a M3 would leave you for dust.

Jamesemt

314lb/ft (ish)

Jamesemt

It had flaired wheel arches but only a single exhaust??

It had a private plate which read 400BHP - guess the guy really was sad enough to rebadge his car with a number plate like that (no WAY was it 400bhp).

LG John

And you'd be wrong - a 330bhp 535 would put up a good fight but in a straight-line battle through the gears an e46 M3 would win. Torque at the wheels anyone

The e46 M3 has quad exhuasts at the back arranged fairly close together and they are pretty darn quick especially when moving and even more so at the higher speeds. I'd fancy my old Saxo VTS to only be a little slower than a 200bhp TDI Ibiza and when I raced an e46 it opened up football pitches on me in seconds! It was like I'd found reverse

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Yeah but I would imagine an in gear roll on is all about available torque, instant go that flatters the little diesel car, no waiting for revs to build, it just goes once you get past that little bit of turbo lag, plus depends on what gear you are in, in your S2000 at say 40 in fourth the Fabia in question would most likely pull away but if you were there say waiting in second with it hovering just below where the Vtec kicks in, its a different story.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Yeah but I would imagine an in gear roll on is all about available torque, instant go that flatters the little diesel car, no waiting for revs to build, it just goes once you get past that little bit of turbo lag, plus depends on what gear you are in, in your S2000 at say 40 in fourth the Fabia in question would most likely pull away but if you were there say waiting in second with it hovering just below where the Vtec kicks in, its a different story hence why its rash to say X is quicker than Y, X is quicker than Y in a given situation would be more appropriate.

LG John

Agree completely and at 40mph in 4th pretty much any TDI would pull on the S2000 (or VTS) but in both cases 2nd gear is a <snick> away. In the majority of 'little' encounters that might occur on the roads a 500lbft 535d would prevail because most M3 drivers aren't the full on hell-for-leather type. But, in the right hands and in any situation where gear changing is allowed the M3 woud be quicker.

I'm not ranting or pointing any accusing fingers and I don't want this to become a big debate but the point that most people seem to forget in the diesel vs petrol debate is gearing. An engine is an engine is an engine irrespective of what fuels it (diesel, gas, petrol, Mr Fusion, etc). It purpose is to generate torque (a force) which can be used to move the vehicle (a motion). Engines are not directly connected to the driven wheels and if they were diesels would accelerate like hell but have a low top speed. The gearbox/diffs, etc are multipliers that affect the torque produced by the engine to give a different torque at the wheels figure. The disadvantage of a diesel is that its limiting engine speed means that it generally has to user higher gearing at equivellent speeds thereby gobbling up that high engine torque through the gearbox whereas a petrol car can hold lower gears for longer and make better use of a more limited engine torque output.

A good example of this can be found in my Hyper 8 R/C Nitro car. From memory it has about 2.5bhp produced at something stupid like 40,000 rpm. If I hold the car and hammer her up to full throttle from idle I can stop the wheel from moving at all (clutch obvously takes the punisment) however, I'd suggest that it has such low torque output that even with the clutch welded up I could stall the engine in this manner. Now take a small 2.5bhp outboard engine from a dingy and crank open the throttle whilst holding the driveshaft......I'd suggest you are about to lose your hand

LG John

Jacko I kind of take the view that when looking at which car is quicker the best measurement is the result of a 100% committment. It's like these people that say that a micra 1.0 is as quick in town as a Ferrari - whilst possibly true if the Ferrari driver wanted to break the speed limits and drive like a mad man he could but the micra is still going to struggle to break 30mph

compshack

Phew thank god we sorted that one out.

LG John

....and before anyone starts <hands up> yes I did mention my VTS first in this thread as it specifically related to my only encounter on the road with a e46 M3. This is not a thread about saxo's, it is not a thread about VTS vs S2000, VTS vs Ibiza, VTS vs 535d, VTS vs e46M3 or VTS vs anything

Brun

simplesteve

"most M3 drivers aren't the full on hell-for-leather type"

I guess I must be in the minority then!