sti-04!!

Whats the deal with the M3 CS ??

What are the differences between them all ??, apart from price.

midget1500

clarksons article in the sunday times? said the CS was fantastic compared to the CSL.

Andy M3

From what i remember the CS has the CSL steering rack and suspension, but M3 engine, gearbox and brakes.

pete1977

Is the CS as light as the CSL?

fromage

nope standard M3 weight

pete1977

So it basically just the handling thats different?Im not very gen up on the CS ,i only heard of it the other day.The CSL is a lovely car though ,not like those common as muck bog standard M3,s .

davyboy

The CSL is awesome, GT3 performance.

I also think it will be worth a premium in years to come.

sti-04!!

CSL is a lovely car tbh & more gen'd up towards a weekend albiet track car. Will see what i can find at the weekend.

sti-04!!

You reckon so ??

Is that just a personal opinion ?

Having had a GT3 for a short space of time last year, it would be great to have something as close to it as possible.

Thanks

Andy M3

Where's NeVeTaS

He would comment on a CSL v's GT3 ?

sti-04!!

I was thinking the same, if he doesnt post. I will get him on MSN tonight.

davyboy

Apart from brakes, there is nothing in it, the CSL shares the same brakes as the normal M3.

A few 'ring times to give you an example.

7:47 Porsche 996 GT3 RS, 381 PS (sport auto 03/04)
7.49 Porsche 996 GT3, 392 PS (AutoBild 2004)
7:50 BMW E46 M3 CSL (sport auto 08/03)
7:54 Porsche 996 GT3 (sport auto 06/03)

sti-04!!

Thanks Dave

Some very interesting figures there, though i dare say i would drive round the ring that scared i would be lucky to break 10.00

Andy M3

Is the sport auto times done by the same driver? It is very interesting that ll those cars are so closely matched.

davyboy

Sport Auto driver is Horst van Saurma.

Times can vary a fair bit due to temps and stuff, but it's a good indication of how close the times are.

sti-04!!

Can the CSL brakes be upgraded ??

Andy M3

i would have a word with NeVeTaS again, he is selling some pad for uprated brakes at the moment on Northloop.co.uk

csl

Yes, most go for the AP brake kit. Speak to Thorney on www.bm3w.co.uk

Nevetas

In those times the CSL was on cups. A GT3 RS did 7.40 on cups

Nevetas

Sorry they have now been sold, but yes you must upgrade the CSL brakes to the AP kit. I did front & rear.

brybusa

CS article by Clarkson here...some very funny comments about car clubs as well!

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/art...649122,00.html

Nevetas

The CS is an M3 with a few CSL bits. No carbon fibre air intake, no carbon fibre roof.

If you want a comfotable M3 with a few tricks go for the CS

If you want an uncomfotable M3 with no toys but a sound to die for go for the CSL

If you want a track car that you can use on the road go for the GT3 (clubsport).

The CSL is the best sounding car out of all of them, especially with a superspint exhaust system. Remember you can only get it with SMG paddles so make sure you like them.

CSL's can be had for good money at the moment, there are loads for sale on piston heads.

If you are doing lots of track days I'd go for the GT3, but if it's mainly a road car the CSL is amazing value for money. GT3's are bargains at the moment due to the new 997 coming out, but they are still more than CSL's.

Pics of all on my site, www.nevetas.eu

compshack

I've driven 2 CSL's a number of M3's and I own a CS. The brakes on the CS are the same as the CSL. They are uprated from the standard M3. I personally find them the best I've come across. My CS is manual, sometime I wish I had gone for the SMG but sometimes I like the manual.
I had a chance of getting a CSL for good money just before I bought the CS. For a weekend car I would go for the CSL, like Nevetas says you would not beleve the sound these make, totally intoxicating. It is a focused track car which you can drive on the road. As an everyday car daily driver I think it would get wearing, I'm sure that Nevetas can comment on that.
The seats are bucket style with no adjustment of the back rest, some don't come with aircon. The one I was looking at still had the Cup tyres which are a handfull in the wet.
If like me you use the car day in day out the CS is the one to go for. It has the reqular seats and all the usual M3 toys but the CSL bits throw in including the 19" wheels.

davyboy

I can only assume you have owned a Subaru before, and never driven a Porsche

compshack

Yes I have owned 3 subaru sti's 3 Evo fq 340's a Focus RS, Civic Type R, and a 330D to name but a few, and yes I have driven a Porsche.
Have you?

john banks

I found the brakes shocking on the stock M3. However, the pads and calipers on the CS and CSL have the same part number as the M3. The difference is the diameter of the brake discs - they are larger on the CS and CSL. The actual clamping force - ie first stop with the rather naff looking single pot sliding caliper is excellent. The stock pad material overheats quickly though and starts to deposit on the disc. Whilst they give up gracefully, the steering wheel starts to shudder in hard cross country use under braking. I'm sure an uprated pad would go a long way to improving it. The discs seem of good quality even if they are "fashion" drilled rather than my preferred grooves, and they are on excellent alloy mounting bells.

The Evo Brembos are slated - also for pad deposition or "warping", but they are in a different league to the M3's and are now on 5500 miles - the M3 was on 6900 miles when I got it and the brakes had obviously not been previously abused from the wear on the pad and disc.

Porsche 996 Turbo brakes felt good, they just worked. Don't know what I expected really after all the hype, but AP 6 pots feel just as good.

compshack

Hi John, Interesting reading, On my Evo VIII MR the brakes where almost suicidal slowing from a high speed was a worrying process. Most Evo owners seem to upgrade there brakes to AP's, which seems to point that the standard brakes are really cutting it. Maybe the IX Brakes are better.
I am only going off my own feelings but even after a long high speed drive with much braking the brakes still seem to work really well on the CS, I don't know if mine have had differant pads put on by the pervious owner but I feel alot more confident braking into corners and stopping. Anyway each to his own.

davyboy

Once or twice.

john banks

It is odd how different people find the brakes on different cars. The Evo ones seem to stand up so far to driving to the visibility limits (and my limits) but with tuning to 400 BHP, for 10 miles or so at a time on a twisty road that is mainly 3rd and 4th gear, with some 2nd gear corners. A few miles in on the M3 and I was backing off because of the brakes. Yet others find the reverse. I was so convinced that I'd need AP strapdrives or 6 pots by now that I declared a brake upgrade from day 1 on the insurance with the car.

Edcase