JTaylor

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/l...re/4936536.stm

Tripple'O G

Well......at least they'll stop going BANG

Mungo

It's not terribly surprising - their model range just got stupid. They had umpteen models, all very fast, with nothing much to distinguish between them. Evern a car-nut like myself lost track of which was which.
What happened after Griffith, Chimaera and Cerbera? 3 different approaches to the sports car IMHO.
Ok, so they're got Tamora, Sagaris and Tuscan, but they're all basically the same!! You can even get a convertible Tuscan which seems all but identical to the Tamora!

John57

I've got a TVR Griffith 500 and have had it for a year without any problems .....

The current crop of TVR's have nothing to match a Griffith or a Chimaera - they are all dearer! They may be more modern, quicker and better handling but they are still too much money....

If I had £50K burning a hole in my pocket I would not buy a Tuscan convertible - it is just too dear ..... I love my Griffith, but wouldn't buy a new TVR for silly money; no matter what the performance.

If they had a new 'entry level' TVR again like the Chimaera then I think they would open up the market like they had before.

oakey100

They are not closing down, just re-locating to a new factory.

See http://www.pistonheads.com/tvr/defau...?storyId=13760

Dave

Fat Boy

I seriously doubt that they are just moving factory as you would sort the factory first and then release to the press - if you didn't want a disastrous effect on your car sales that is.....

serious losses and sales have collapsed out of sight - no way that a move to Russia or india or whatever would help that situation other than reducing build costs somewhat at the cost of transport costs, brand damage and (possibly) even worse reliability.

Bye bye TVR. It was fun while it lasted

AudiLover

TVR wont demise they have a very big fan base in japan to make sure of that.

Dracoro

Errm. The chimaera, griffith and cerbera were all basically the same too. Tell me the difference between the two 4/5 litre convertibles, both similar weight, both similar interiors, both similar performance, both similar size etc.? The cerby was slightly different in that it had rear seats and a welded on hardtop

Regardless, I agree that that is the problem along with the build quality and reliability and cost. How many TVRs are there now?
Tamora.
T350 (isn't this just a harder tamora coupe - why bother?)
Sagaris - Completely pointless and a waste of money for TVR to invest in.
Tuscan.
Tuscan S (again, why?)
Cerbera Speed 12 (no market)

They need 2 cars only:

A £25k, reliable, cheap(ish) to run convertible to compete with S2000s, 350Zs, Boxsters, Z4s etc.
A £35k/£40k performance coupe to compete with M3s and the like.
Loads of people will pay circa £30k for a TVR, they won't for a £40k+ one. They need to forget trying to compete with Ferrari, Porsche 911 etc. it just won't happen, the market is different.
So basically the Tamora at £25/£30k and the Tuscan at £38/£40k is what they need. Make them reliabile and well built and once they've got it all sorted with loads of customers, good reputation etc. THEN maybe think about 'specials' like the sagaris, T350 thing etc.

Brun

^^^^^^^
I agree with all of that

AudiLover

Yeah but those TVR's are much faster than the cars theyre competing against hence the crappy interior etc.

Also you cant buy the cebera and the sagaris seems quite popular.

Dracoro

You can buy a westie, caterham etc. which is faster than just about anything but you can't ask £40k for them.

carl

A 7-a-like ("coffin dodgem") and a TVR are not the same thing at all. Have you driven both? One relies on power-to-weight ratio, which is great up to 120, the other relies on just power. One has a dashboard and interior from the Demon Tweeks catalogue, the other has a radical-looking hand-stitched interior with bespoke ***** and instruments.

luke m

crappy interiors? they've got the most original and imaginative interiors of almost any cars you can buy.

AudiLover

just because somethings original and imaginative doesnt mean its good. The build and fit and finish is poor. And the cars smell of glue

Dracoro

Yup, I own a 7 and have been in tvrs. However, you're missing the point. 7s cost < £20k. TVRs at £40k/£50k and check out the competition. A TVR dash looks nice imo, esp the cerbera, however it does not have the fit and finish of cars at the same price.

A TVR which is reliable, well built and not extortionate to run IS worth £40k/£50k and when they're building them like that THEN they can get away with charging that sort of money. While they don't, they'll always be a small player just managing (or not) to survive. Don't get me wrong, I love TVR cars, just couldn't put up with the running and purchase cost, especially when you consider the opposition. However, if they were £10k cheaper then a fair few more people would buy them.

Tiggs

I bought a TVR at £20k instead of a s2000 or z4.....STUPID STUPID STUPID idea.

As has been said, they seem to revel in the "they all do that sir" idea that they dont need to work to still sell.

IMO the companies a joke, look at pistonheads then find another forum for ANY product in the world that fails as much as a TVR.

Mine looked good from a distance, sounded good......that was it - not worth £5k let alone £20k

AudiLover

What model was it tiggs? What were the problems?

Dracoro

Funny enough, I did the exact opposite a few years ago. Toss up between an S2000 or a TVR and I went the Honda route.

S2000 service: £130 a year + 3 year warranty + great reliability and well built where everything works ALL the time.
TVR service: £500 - £1500 depending on how lucky you are.

So as you can see, in the end and easy choice.

TVRs - great for driving, great for being in, great sounds, great looks, poor ownership prospects.

Tiggs

Chim 450.

One owner, few years old - lots of history but nothing bad in there.

Bought it because it looked very good compared to other TVR's i was looking at.

HOWEVER.....

On getting home, and able to compare it to my wifes Renault Megane, i realise-

The build is a joke, the parts used are out of the Ford skip and fitted on by monkys with some glue.

I know little about engines...but knew this was ****e - it woudnt start after a blast because too hot - wouldnt start after rain because too wet.

Would stall if revs fell fast (like stopping at lights) so had to stop with heel and toe to keep the revs up

Inside with roof up was crap - too hot.

Roof panel idea is stupid and its no surprise NO ONE ELSE IN THE WORLD uses a design where you have to store your roof in your boot by hand????

Basically a s2000/Z3/MGF/M3 Convertible would have all been better built and worked - they may not sound as good but i didnt expect to pay £20k for a noise.

What i should have done before buying was sat in it engine off for 30 mins (i did this plenty of times after waiting for RAC).....if i had i would have noticed that "luxury hand made interior" means the cabin looks like a sofa from DFS parts bin after being attacked by the leftovers from a lada production line......+ some chrome bits glued on by stevie wonder.

Brun

carl

Not sure you could get a Caterham with TVR-equivalent performance for <£20k. More like £30k, assembled. But I agree -- £50k is too much. Apparently when the Griffith was launched it was the same price as a mid-spec 3-series BMW. If they could produce an entry-level at the S2000/350Z/Boxster price level with 350bhp I reckon they'd be on a winner.

carl

But an S2k is relatively slow. My Cerb is as quick as a 911 turbo. Servicing costs are similar too -- 911s (particularly turbos) seem to cost a fortune in servicing even if nothing's gone wrong. TVR dealer rate is £600 for a minor service, £995 for a major (cheaper at an indie of course). Labour rate is £70/hr, compared to £100/hr for our local Mercedes dealer. The big services on my Subaru (cheap Japanese tin box) were about £600, IIRC.

Tiggs

"If they could produce an entry-level at the S2000/350Z/Boxster price level with 350bhp I reckon they'd be on a winner."

spot on....they need a car at £23-25k start price. Nice and simple, BUILT properly. A bit like a lotus elise but with a mans engine.

It doesnt need to be the best handling/fastest in its class.....it just needs to sound great, look great be fun and WORK.

carl

Yep. Although a Lotus has its fair share of niggles. I think the difference is that prior to the speed 6 engined-versions, TVRs were known as fairly cheap, high-powered cars that leaked a bit and sometimes had crap paint finish (which they called "character"). But then the niggles turned into actually blowing up, and the price went up at the same time! I remember looking at used Tuscans and I found one with 6,500 miles on the clock, "5,500 on new engine". So that managed 1,000 miles before going bang. There are a bunch of 2002 Tamoras on Pistonheads for <£19k, which is the price of a decent Cerbera or Griffith. They've all less than 20k on the clock, but some have had replacement engines or rebuilds. If I'd stumped up £45k for that, I'd be most pissed off (not to mention with the £25k depreciation in 3 years).

Petem95

Yeah making their own engines was a mistake. A small firm isnt ever going to have the development money required, and it means engine servicing and problems need to be sorted at specialists which wont exactly be seen as a plus point by customers.

They should have fitted something like Corvette 5.7 V8's or Dodge 8.0 V8's and concentrated on the rest.

Ok interior quality is never going to be upto Porsche levels, but people are willing to forgive that for a bit of extra style and individuality (and performance!)

carl

The AJP8 was OK though. Some problems with the early ones and cam wear, but there are several with over 100k on the clock now. The official reason they ditched it in favour of the Speed 6 is because they couldn't get the AJP8 to pass the new emission regs, but I understand another issue is that they had to pay Al Melling (the designer of the engine) a licence fee for each engine used.

Luan Pra bang

TVR's are an emotional choice just like ferraris etc. For years italian supercars were absolute nightmares and broke of you dared to take the out of the garage and even then they were 100k. Reliability has always been an issue in good sports cars only porsche broke that rule but the only take it out on the weekend nature of these cars is what makes them special. any one who buys a TVR to drive everyday is missing the point.

AudiLover

If they did that I wouldnt even ever consider buying one anymore. Those engines are so bloody lazy and heavy and eat fuel I dont see why anyone would want to stick one in theyre car.

Tiggs

"any one who buys a TVR to drive everyday is missing the point."

i wanted to drive mine at the weekend.....i wouldnt start though.

carl

I fixed that by leaving it in the garage plugged into an Accumate charger via the *** lighter socket. It's a much better ownership experience when it starts every time.