john banks

Very impressive in the wet, bumpy, muddy roads.

Think it was a sport as it had rear spoilers and twin pea shooter, but no bonnet scoop - unless hiding FMIC. 11 years old, looked tidy.

I could not stay in touch in the twisties, I was trying to be smooth, if I gave it too much I was trying to contain the oversteer, brakes were grumbling, I was bouncing around in my E46 M3. Once on the straights I could pull you in, but it did go as though you had at least a small turbo...

I really need another Scooby!

MattW

davyboy

....you need driving lessons

RON

JOhn, didn't the sport have a single exit pipe..... maybe it was a turbo...?? although Mmm, no scoop.... stealth mobile....

john banks

I've had driving lessons - road and track. Last time at Knockhill I was sitting with the Nobles I'm no hero, but reasonably average. I used to adore this road in the Scooby!

I did think it accelerated like a turbo - ie he could overtake things in a way a Sport would I think struggle to do. The twin pea shooter maybe looked a bit beefier than the stock pea shooter. Maybe I'm just covering my embarrassment

Didn't John Felstead previously manage to go quite quickly in the twisties in his Sport and embarrass turbos?

Hol

iTrader: (1)

I remember someone telling me that a lot of the Subaru staff prefeered the sport as it feels very underpowered/over enginered in non-turbo form.

Quite literally, you could give it loads of stick, but it never had the power/torque to overcome the grip.

The perfect set-up!

Dark Blue Mark

Didnt someone mod their car very extensively and keep either the pea shooter, or pea shooter with bypass?

I am really missing the AWD and buckets of torque

MB

misty

In that case you need one of these mate


dave

LG John

Pretty much in keeping with my experience in the muddy, broken twisties with the S2000. I could match him in every regard except that I could not get on the power anywhere near as early as him when cornering and he'd draw out a few car lengths on every exit. We are entering summer season though so I'll be sure and go fishing for a rematch

Sounds like overall you've been quite dissapointed with the M3 - a shame as I don't doubt its a very good car. It's just not good enough to float your boat and meet your needs.

Dark Blue Mark

I know of 2 people who have ditched it for a CSL and been very very happy...

MB

Nevetas

I ditched mine for a CSL and wasn't happy

But god I loved the noise!

fatscoobyfella

An E46 M3 is enough to meet anyones needs.Perhaps its just that feel of not being in full control of the car that powerful RWD cars seem to give you..Drivin quick in a 4wd car is childs play,especially when it aint got enough power to break traction!!

Dark Blue Mark

I dont think John's scoob had that problem...

MB

fatscoobyfella

I didnt mean Johns car as an example..What i meant to say in a roundabout fashion is,that most people with half a leaning towards driving quick will be able to fling a 4wd car down a country lane at a fair pace..Try it in any 300 BHP RWD car!!!..There is considerably more talent needed..

simo

& you ditched your CSL, twice iirc

Dark Blue Mark

I agree but im more coming to the conclusion that if AWD gets you round quicker and safer, then sod it!

MB

LG John

Your gayness hits new heights mark

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I have pea shooters. Nowt restrictive about them at all.
But then there is also a turbo under the bonnet too

John, There's a reason why I always said the M5 is a far superior car

john banks

Does the E39 M5 (or the E60 for that matter) have a lot more compliance?

I am agreeing with Dark Blue Mark.

The only talent I find I need with the E46 M3 is that I have to wait forever to smoothly apply the throttle out of a bend unless it is dry and smooth. If I think I'm being tame and try a bit too early the tail wags to remind me that it really loves to do that. The Subaru running double the torque to weight was less of a handful and that was an old classic that was supposedly an understeering nightmare. I'd swap out of control powerful RWD as a Scottish road car for a supposedly understeery Subaru any time unless I wanted a quiet drive to work, in which case a 320d would do fine, or 330d if I needed to overtake things.

Buzz Blaber

i used to have a sport and with the prodrive springs fitted! did it handle! i couldnt keep up with a standerd turbo on the straight, but on a twisty road i just stayed there,

john banks

The thing is, skinny tyres, small wheels, soft anti-roll bars are all great in the wet, muddy stuff!

A stiff, low, RWD with 255/35R19 rear tyres is no competition on this stuff.

Nevetas

Once

fatscoobyfella

Dont get me wrong here John,i aint passing any comment on your or anyones ability behind the wheel.The point i am trying to get across is,a drivers car will always be something that flings its **** out at the merest provacation,and all the control is left to you,its a long learning curve to up your ability to the cars capabilities..Sit in an impreza or evo and even a poor driver will find it easy to to drive it quick...

Im not sure if thats a good or a bad thing really...Fast,powerful cars which are/were a handful,were generally driven by people who enjoyed motoring,speed and understood how to drive a car...As a rule i would say that is lost now..Anyone can get there hands on something that is obscenely quick for a couple of grand and cause carnage everytime the key is turned...

Sorry bit OT there..Just my 2p worth anyway. I will shut up now!!!

Oh...i would go with an E39 M5 BTW..

john banks

I know what you mean, but it takes real ***** and/or stupidity to throw the ar$e end around with 343 BHP RWD on the public roads at high speeds. Perhaps therein lies the challenge of mastering it and controlling it and I have huge respect for drivers that obviously can do it. I personally would rather have something that just grips unless seriously provoked for my road car. Something that with reasonable safety just demolishes any road and lets me enjoy the feedback, quality of the braking/acceleration, cornering without requiring massive effort. Even with silly power, the Subaru always felt like you could have taken that last bend harder than you did, especially on the exit. The M3 would require me or the traction control to balance it on the limit. Trouble is, even with the traction control, when the roads are bumpy and wet there are no options if your tyres aren't on the ground enough. There is huge appeal to it on a fast sweeping smooth bend where there is insufficient power to upset the car but the balance is fantastic. The feel all disappears into a horrid mess when there are undulations though.

Nevetas

John, 997 Turbo?

Maybe that could be the car for you?

AudiLover

A nsx type-r should beat 99% of cars in the twisties

Maybe some stickier tyres are needed on the M3?

john banks

Possibly Nevetas, but I don't like borrowing money to buy cars and I would have to, and then I'd be unwilling to fling it about or even drive it as hard as a much cheaper car that I can modify. Additionally, the 996 Turbo still didn't like bumpy roads I didn't think, although it was better than the M3.

Taking the advice of a suspension expert and ex Porsche GT2 racecar engineer, it does seem that most German machinery is setup for high speed smooth roads or tracks where they excel (your GT3RS is a prime example). I've seen a 993 (just a cooking one) fall through its rear suspension and drag its ar$e on the ground over the sort of bumps that the following Subaru takes flat out. These are the roads around here that I like.

Stickier tyres would make it worse unless they were excellent in the wet and had softer sidewalls. The M3 has an odd combination of feeling oversprung and underdamped. The turn in can be a bit wooly yet it is also too stiff. As I say, probably great in Germany. This I'm sure is a less is more in terms of springs and tyres... Audis are examples of everything I don't like in a car's handling.

fatscoobyfella

Yea.. i know what ya mean John.It was the predictability of the handling that got so boring for me with 4wd cars,and im not saying that flippantly...have you had a good go in an E39 M5..??

Totally different thing from the E46 M3...you just might like?

Dark Blue Mark

Thats my frustration with the S, I cant get the power down when I want, and there is harldy anywhere you can dare push the back out on a back road. The Scoob could be flung around a country road with so much confidence, and thus more enjoyment. RWD is fun, but I dont think its anywhere near what its cracked up to be - its actually limiting unless you're on a track.

MB

john banks

On track, the Subaru can be flicked about though and has a huge number of options, but they are also (to me) irrelevant on the public roads.

I've not actually driven an M5, I went in one as a passenger, and I think it was a bit more composed than the M3 in the twisty stuff, but he didn't push it anywhere near like I would. Even so, it wasn't the most planted unless the tarmac was smooth I didn't think. It was on the way to Crail, and the following Subaru would have monstered it though, as these roads are also undulating.