Gutmann pug

Friend has a golf VR6. He has had it a couple of years, bought it direct from the company we work at and knows its easy life history 100%. He has done the ring twice and the track bug has bitten. He has two trips planned this year maybe more.
He has just mailed me asking whether I think he should keep his golf and strip it for the track or buy an MR2 turbo and do the same thing?
This was my reply ..... What would you do?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm what would I do?
Golf is a heavy car to start with, can get it lighter but it will always have a heavy engine up front. It can be made into a good track car BUT needs a set of KW coil over suspension.......They are the daddies and nothin else will do. What you end up with is a stripped golf with coilovers and a cage and you know whats right and wrong with the car as you've had it so long and know its history.
MR2 turbo ....real dark horse this one ..... 250bhp and one of the best kept secrets around. Quick and reasonably reliable. The big issue is you are buying the unknown ..... most of them will have had a hard life and being as though they are getting on a bit means they are ripe to have things go wrong when used hard on track....
My opinion............. Golf breaks down, needs new pads, needs a new hose while in germany ..... take it to any garage its fixed within an hour and you're back on the track ,,,,,,,,, same thing happens to the MR2 and I reckon you might as well get a flight home and leave the car there. It aint going to be fixed anytime soon.
Stick to the german clutter, stay away from the jap crap

Gutmann pug

For some reason I also have a feeling a VR6 would be more reliable than an MR2 turbo. Stands to reason really. They are putting out the same kind of power and are the same kind of age as early classic WRX's.........

VR6's are also lighter than I thought, I must admit.

Gary

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Tell him to sell it and get a Golf mk2 8v GTI instead!

GrahamG

i would take an Tubby everytime. Having owned 3... i am a little bias. The car is lovely to drive and great fun. Can be a little wild in the wet, but with a little respect still great fun.

my 2p's worth!

Andy M3

Are they reliable as track cars ? I heard somewhere on a forum that they break down a reasonable amount, and parts are expensive ?

Gutmann pug

Tricky if you're in Germany too. Getting scoob parts is bad enough. Has to come from a dealer 60k's away. I cant imagine how easy it would be to get parts for an import only MR2?

JCScooby

I came within a baw hair of buying an MR2 gti-16 (N.Asp model) and i have to say it was impressive. I knew the previous owner and it had 180,000mls on the clock and he didnt have one spot of bother with it. The night before i was due to buy the car some **** ran into the rear 1/4 panel and then bolted before the owner could see who it was, i was gutted and the deal was off
I reckon the turbo model must be insanely quick and i think it comes more ready for track use than the Golf. I do like the Golf but similar to other folk, i've always thought it seems awful heavy.
Get a mk2 Golf and drop the 2.9 Vr6 from the corrado in there
I've always been led to believe the 2.9 is much better than the 2.8, although i wouldnt imagine there would be that big a difference.

Daniel-S

I would do this personally

J4CK50N

MR2 Turbos are very reliable. I had one for 2 years, and it was driven hard regularly, albeit not on a track.

The engines seem to be bullet proof as long as they have been looked after.

My advice would be to go with the MR2 and take your time sourcing a vehicle that is as standard as possible, with no signs of boost controllers or bleed valves!

You will not regret it. I would have another in a heartbeat, apart from the 2 seater problem

mw2655

i'd keep the VR6, better the devil you know

and i presume insurance and running costs will be less for the golf.

Adam M

the vr6 is a pants engine by comparison to the mr2 turbo. It is heavy and archaic with 12 Vs and a low specific output.

I can't believe some of the above suggestions. If you are going to the bother of trasnplating a vw engine into a mk2 golf, you dont use the vr6, you use the 1.8 20v turbo unit from a golf or a TT etc. Lighter and far quicker and more reliable.

A stripped golf will be nice, but is always going to a be front engine front wheel drive car. As a drivers car it is already a bad starting point compared with a mid engine rear wheel drive coupe tha is ligth weight.

Add to that the engine of an mr2 turbo, the 3sGT (I think) has about the best geometry of a standard turbo charged engine (very square) and is very strong in standard form to boot. 350bhp with ease. You need to experience one of these engines to comment, they are clean revving and have incredible torque delivery, mostly due to their excellent design.

For me there would be no choice. If you are talking reliability, so long as you keep it debt free, check the fluids, and feed it decent petrol and oil, the engine is very capable of reliability on track.

GrahamG

never took mine on a track so not sure.

however, never broke down. the only faults i had with all 3 were the brakes. first thing on the list. New uprated brakes. you will be fine.

Here's my old ones.

JCScooby

I think you're comment "i cant believe some of the above suggestions" is a little OTT. The VR6 2.9 into the mk2 Golf is a very very worthy transplant. My brothers mate owned one and this thing was nearly untouchable on the road, it had superb accelaration and also the weight was good for traction on the front wheels, it also was very good handling. Funnily enough he now owns a mr2 Turbo and often comments that it does'nt provide the same enjoyment as the mk2 Golf.
P.s Get on the phone to the likes of Dubsport and tell them they've being doing it wrong all these years.

SJJ84

Is this going to be an only car? Or will he be using something else for everyday? If it's the 2 car route I'd keep the VR6 for the road and then buy a Mk2 golf for the track. As said above I'd put a 1.8 20V turbo in it. The VR6 is a very nice engine and works pretty well in a Mk2, but it is a heavy engine, the turbo is lighter and works so much better for a small amount of extra effort in installation. There was a black one running round brands hatch last year, scoobies and evos couldn't even get close to it. Very impressive for not much dollar.

Gutmann pug

He doesnt want to do engine transplants. Not his cup of tea.

He will have another car for the road, although the VR6 / MR2 would need to stay road legal and driveable when he feels the need to.

Gary

little'un

iTrader: (9)

VR6

I loved my VR6 - until TSR got hold of it and f**ked it up for me

Stick with VW

davyboy

I woudn't worry about Adam - he's a nice chap, but pretty clueless.

jameswrx

iTrader: (4)

I'd be suprised if a vr6 engine is more reliable than an MR2

The point about fixing the vw easier in Germany is valid though.

Having owned a bit of German 'clutter' and 'jap crap' as you put it.. I'd feel a lot happier (as far as reliability goes) driving Jap. I'd be a little aprehensive even driving to the ring in the VR6 let alone round it.

Gutmann pug

I would suggest about 15% of all cars at the ring are golf's of some kind or another. I would suggest that 5% of cars are Jap of some kind or another. I dont think I have seen an MR2 turbo and the only MR2 I have seen is this one

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...&q=nurburgring

That tells me something......


Gary

RAF1

iTrader: (5)

a mate of mine off the toc (toyota owners club) went in his rev3 turbo mr2 to the ring last year as part of a group (quite a few mr2 turbo's went) and he has had it on several tra\ck days without a single problem..

MR2 all the way i say - a much more 'fun car' ... go onto some of the mr2 sites and you may get more feedback from people that have taken their tubby's on the ring also good knowledge of faults and model specs...

Raf.
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/2757/photo137ja.jpg

jameswrx

iTrader: (4)

Well, if we are taking into account your mates driving skills then who knows!

He'd need to be fairly skilled with RWD to go tearing around the ring in an MR2, I've driven a couple of mr2 turbo's and they can be quite 'fun' Both I've driven have been early versions though (I understand the later revisions handling is more suited to the power?) One I had in a sort of (non intentional) stomach dropping drift on a sweeping 80mph dual carriage way.. the mate I was test driving the car for (who was sitting in the passenger seat) went for a Honda prelude in the end

VAL113R

They are only 250bhp if you're going for the Rev3 onwards. Rev1 and 2 are only 220bhp.

I have both an MR2 turbo and a Subaru WRX. I prefer driving the MR2. I bought mine last January totally standard with just over 40k miles.(it still reads in kph)

In the whole year I've had it I have never had any problems with it. I can leave it for 3 weeks and it will start first time (more than I can say for the wrx the battery is flat after 3 days)

I do service my cars regularly, they go in for an oil change every 5,000 kilometers.

As said they are very easy to tune. Very easy in a rev 3 car to get 300bhp out of it with little mods. Unlike the Subaru you don't need any sort of aftermarket ECU unless you're going for big horsepower. I believe you can get nearly 400bhp with the standard engine.

Common mods are a chargecooler from an ST205, full exhaust, induction kit and boost controller. These would easily see you over 300bhp.

cheers

Dream Weaver

MR2 - amazing cars.

Used to hammer my NA to death and it never moaned once.

kammy

My bro used to have a MR2 tubby many years back, quick but very difficult drive.

IF he does change motors, why not get a newer 200sx? S14a can be had for £3500- IMHO- a better choice all round.

OR stick with the Golf, FWD is underestimated with a good dirver and set-up.

Chip Sengravy

I was given a Mk2 golf couple of years ago, and had a 60K 2.9 VR6 for 800 quid to drop into it. The car was stripped to nothing, and ready for the engine, when my GF's dad decided he wanted his garage back

A guy bought it off me for £1200, he reckoned he was going to put it all back together as a road car

Ciaran

iTrader: (16)

well i currently own a VR6.
is a good car has 90k on the clock and being only a PATHETIC 2.8 made
194 bhp and 183 lb/ft trq with purly a BMC and a full exhaust.
for those of u not in the know that 20bhp and 30 odd lb/ft trq up on standard.
my car koni springs and shocks all round and hadles ok but nothing compared to my old MK2 valver.

i have covered 15k in the vr without one problem the engines are rock solid as is most of the interior which would be getting ripped out.

in my opinion the golf would be better reliability wise and be better suited to a medioker (spelling) driver.

and if ur going put the engine in something other than the original shell use a lupo :P

Chip Sengravy

What would a lupo with a 1.8T in the back be like?

Gutmann pug

Funny really.

Most of the replies on here were in favour of the MR2 whereas I posted the self same topic on a track related site and all were in favour of the VR6....

He is keeping the Vr6 in favour of the jap crap by the way.

Cheers for your input

Gary

Senior_AP

VR6 everytime.

luke m

i had an mr2 turbo, great car. it'll easily outdrag a vr6 in standard form (rev3 onwards) and as has been mentioned, cheap to tune. handlings a different matter, as although i've never driven a vr6 i think most know about their reputation. the mr2 never had such positive reviews - having said that, most derogatory remarks about the '2 seem to have been based on the rev1/rev2 versions (89-93). don't buy these. never had any handling problems with the rev3 and i wouldn't call myself a particulary expert driver. great fun. only problem is that now seem very expensive - £10+ for a 1998 model?!