Bubba po

He's started saving up and he's looking at an old shape late 80's/early 90's version.

Does anyone out there have any information that I can build up into a buyer's guide for him? Best models, performance stats, common problems to look out for, servicing costs etc. would all be very welcome. He's looking to spend about 10,000 - what might that buy him in a year's time?

Thanks in anticipation to anyone that contributes.

Brendan Hughes

All I can remember was the ?G90 gearbox, about 88-89 onwards, supposed to be much better. I think you can tell by where reverse is.

Many on here will help you better...

davyboy

Look at LHD if all he has is 10k.

Buy on condition and not mileage.

I hope he has deep pockets.

Bubba po

Well he doesn't, but he's only expecting occasional pleasure use, not trackdays or daily commuting. If he does 2,000 miles a year I'll be surprised.

Should he be looking at a well-kept earlier car for that money? He's seen a few in autotrader in that price range.

What about the drivability of them? Are they a handful as I've heard?

spufus

iTrader: (2)

Next door has one.

I'll have a word if you like.

davyboy

Even at 2k miles a year I bet he still has to put 2k a year in to it.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Earlier cars are MUCH more expensive to service than later cars and very low mileage is as bad as high mileage. These cars need to be used.

At £10k I think he needs to be realistic as a good car will cost more to get into, however it will keep its value.

A cheap car can be the most expensive mistake ever made. Autocar bought one a few years ago and looked very carefully, with expert help and the car still cost them a fortune in the first six months.

A car from a dealer with a warranty will be 15-20% more than private.

Rannoch

Bubba po

Bladdy hell. :shock:

How might that break down? (Pun recognised)

This isn't a wind-up thread, by the way.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showthrea...&highlight=911

Search is good innit

davyboy

brakes, gearbox, bodywork, leaks, oil leaks.....

A car that old and for that budget, everything, and anything can and likely will go wrong.

I wanted the same, although had a bit more budget and ended up getting the better, faster, more reliable poor mans version

GCollier

Get some back issues of 911 and Porsche World magazine. They have published pretty comprehensive buyers guides for those cars.

Bubba po

Thanks Ali. Scoobs don't exactly have feather-light clutches, do they?

Sorry, off topic.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Seems feather light to me perhaps mine is broken

Bubba po

Thanks for that... and everyone else too. I think he has the idea that porsches keep their money.

But he does love the look of them. He hates to spend money on maintaining cars, though.

Bubba po

That corsa I had for two days didn't seem to have a clutch pedal at all.

Dave uk blue mica

the 3.2 air cooled ones are a total waste of time and their performance is pathetic, drive one and you'll be so disappointed cos i was when i drove my mates years ago

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Compared to what though?

With "only" 230bhp/210lbft and 1160kg you must have missed something (or maybe that particular car - there are a load of nails about)

Gastro

My best advice is for £10k is to forget an early 911.
You won't get a RHD 3.2 which would be the logical choice of 'early' 911 - a LHD maybe.
You'd get a much better condition 911 SC / 3.0 car for that sort of money, and then you are running into pre 1974 cars which werent galvanized and are rust buckets.

Althought the G50 'box is heralded my many to be a better 'box, the 915 'box is greatly underrated.

There has been plenty said about them on this BBS before. They are not cheap cars to maintain - with expensive and aging electrics, heaters, corroded heat exchangers, clutches, gearbox syncro's, top end overhauls - the dream can rapidly become a nightmare.

For £10k - you'd get a much more useable 944 (Davyboy is the man).
Look for closer £15k and your getting into a good quality 3.2 - thats had top end overhaul and alot of the expesive things already sorted. Far mor enjoyable - believe me

Gastro

Jonathan Davies

Trouble!

I reckon a 944 turbo for that money. Depreciation should be low, but only if you spend the money on maintenance. Swings and roundabouts.

Gastro

http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=103&i=8887

Duck_Pond

Aye, better off aiming for a 944, and should be able to get a decent one for that money. Ask Karl about maintenance costs.

I've looked at getting a 911 a couple of times in the last few years, and I reckon you need to budget at least 17-20k for a half decent one. Then there's the running of it.

924s aren't worth bothering with IMO, and although you can get a decent(ish) 928 for that money, AFAIK they're even worse to look after than 911s!

Karl 227

Geoff, if he doesn't mind a left hooker, he'd get a pretty decent 964 for 10k pounds over here

http://www.mobile.de/cgi-bin/da.pl?s...11111193498074

flynnstudio

Hi,

I had an 1984 911 Carrera 3.2 and let me tell you they are STUNNING!.

The 84 model is much lighter than 85 onwards - and weight = speed and handling!

With a stainless box you will get 240bhp on a 1160kg car which is about 206bhp per tonne - the same as a STI with ppp but much lighter.

mine had the 915 box ( supposedly slower than the G50 but don't let that make you think it's slow it's PERFECLTY timed for the entry and exit speeds of high speed corners and essentially you'll be in one gear only on a corner in an old 911 anyway)

Driving: This is why people coming from new cars get freaked - there is no abs, no power steering, nothing - just you the driver and a perfectly balanced and engineered car. The first time you drive one you'll think 'sh*t - this feels all over the place - thats due to the engine being in the rear - it's a whole new weight /power distribution learning curve...there are rules to driving a 911 fast but get it right and not much will get near you...I have seriously embarassed some serious motors in mine. However, if you've never driven one ( and a rear engined car especially) I'd avoid a left hooker - you need to drive these things correctly... and you don't need to be sitting in the verge when your doing it..I've gone through up/down snaking roads at speeds that literally left me feeling dizzy due to the forces being subjected to me...and left some seriously high powered cars following FAR in the distance when I exited them..saying that it took me 2 years to get THAT proficient in it - a new car is so forgiving - these aren't - so build up your competancy and speed VERY carefully...

for example - you always enter a corner with a degree of power on - it keeps the engine sat down and when you reach the apex you can nail it - literally - the rear engine gives incredible traction and you need to learn good racing lines...lift off the power for any reason and you could be in trouble but get it right and your through them at stupid speeds.

Running Costs - You can run these things on next to no money at all as long as you can do your own servicing. You can buy service kits for £60 from most porsche dealers (even pelicanparts.com in the usa does a dirt cheap one with all oem porsche and bosch parts)which include oil, air and air filter, plugs, distributer rotor and rocker gaskets. Porsche specialists just charge the earth for no good reason. There is nothing particularly complicated about them - the motronic means there is no timing or tuning to be done - all a service really involves is changing the filters, the oil and checking the valve clearances - this is a 2 hour job which involves removing the two rockers and slipping a little gap tool (£10) in place and tightning to a nice firm but not wrenched tightness - it's MUCH easier than it sounds...other than that it's just pads, plugs and even the fan belt is a doddle!. There is NOTHING to maintaining one of these. Discs and brakes last AGES and are really easy to change. They have a 12K service interval but dealers will try adn get you to do a 6000 - but just do it yourself. oil sump is easy to reach.
One more thing - check the oil with the engine running and get underneath and look at the finned barrels. The 911 has seperate barrells for each cyclinder not a one piece head..look for oil leaks if there are none - that's a good start.

Get Wayne Dempsey's 101 projects for your porsche 911 - coveres ANYTHING you will ever NEED to do on your porsche..

Your main area of concern is getting a GOOD engine. Everything else is usually totally solid.

If you do your own servicing this will be MUCH CHEAPER than any car you'll ever own! There really is nothing to be afraid of with these cars other than your own inability to drive a supercar.

There are lots out there which are slow and tired - you need to try plenty - basically if it's not fast ( and I mean the kind of ridiculous FAST that makes you go 'sh*t - I'm running out of road') then try another - a FAST 911 is usually a sign of a GOOD engine. I bought mine just recently after the previous owner had had the engine rebuilt.

I've got a scooby now ( and I love it) but I'd certainly never hesitate to get another 911...

These guys have a good selection..much more than is on there website...this was mine..

http://www.gmundcars.com/cars/447/91...ra32sport.html

http://www.gmundcars.com/website/home.html

but a word of warning - if your reasonably young like me you'll find the whole industry is full of people who frown at you for *wanting* a super fast car...I was continually told these are not super fast cars or that they are for sunday drivers - crap total crap!

Mine was electrifying...I have a cockpit vid of me driving it fast and it's like watching the Millenium Falcon going into hyperspace...

oh one more thing - avoid the SC - SLOW - avoid anything pre-84 - no motronic - no hydraulic chain tensioners.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

...and if the pendulum swings away from the 911 to the lesser cars he might want to consider an E30 M3. £10k can buy a well maintained car that will be at least a delight to drive as the 911 if not more so.

Rannoch

Trout

iTrader: (1)

A great review of ownership experience. The key of course is finding a good car to start with. Many people have not found a good car to start with and unless you can do more than service it yourself then you could still lose your shirt.

In terms of your description of health - it really depends on where you are coming from. If you are used to driving Subarus then I am not sure that your description of speed is necessarily true. Indeed 911s can feel slow compared to a Scoob even if they match the pace. Two factors include the lack of the turbo kick and the sheer competence of the Porsche chassis.

I have owned both very healthy 911s and Scoobs and driven many more. I have never felt like I was overwhelmed by the speed of a 911.

flynnstudio

This is very true - once you have 'become as one' with your 911 the kind of speeds you attain are incredible but don't *feel* outrageous but I would more accurately describe them as relentless.

I once got in a playfull tussle with that top of the range Vectra ( big engined thing) and down a narrow road ( private road naturally) he was doing about 120mph and accelerating when I nailed it and I just blew past him getting to over 140mph virtually isntantly whilst approaching a hard banked left corner..seemed perfectly natural to me - nothing alarming or particularly taxing about it at all. just braked a little on the final straight, held a small bit of power on until the apex and then nailed it through and he was just history...

Gastro

I don't think there is such a thing as a decent 964 is there ?
Left hookers come in cheap though.
If you really want to spend a lot on maintenance - get a 964 (voice of experience)....... but you do get a more modern driving experience with the 964.

£10k will NOT buy you anything decent in 911 territory IMO.

flynnstudio

This is also very true...

I'd have sold mine privately for about £12K and for that you'd have got a minter with zero mechanical concerns for a good 60K more miles...

...but I like to think mine was exceptional

as has been said before - either get a more expensive one with a good warranty or BE VERY CAREFUL - engine rebuild by a PROFESSIONAL will cost in the region of £8K!.

midget1500

someone mentioned further on up the thread i think but check the porsche forum at www.pistonheads.com - they know their stuff!

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Saying a 911 is expensive to run compared to a 944 is a little unfair IMO. There is as many, if not more shagged 944s out there than 911s IMO.

Compared to the scoob for both parts prices (and cost of engine rebuilds etc) they are almost on par with each other (just the 911 was better on fuel ).

And a 944 (especially Turbo) is potentially equally as troublesome - parts are no cheaper, and it still suffers from the oddball faults that all porsches of the era had. It's is marginally easier to work on in some areas but parts are no cheaper usually (as the same discount motor factors that do 944 parts do competetively priced 911 parts too ).

I talked to the bloke who bought ours a few months back when I saw it at the classic car show. It was a mint supersports with 40k and FPSH - he bought it for £15k (bargain). He also maoned about the crankcase gasket leaking (huge job to fix for what was a few drips of oil when hot) - I put his mind at rest when I told him it had leaked since we had it.