Escort Cosworth WRC road car
26 December 2005, 07:25 PM
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Escort Cosworth WRC road car
did ford ever make/sell one of these? seen one yesterday and it was R reg with WRC front and back bumpers and the car was silver, wasn't a rally car just a very nice road car with full leather, anyone any ideas cos i've never seen one before only the scale models you can buy so i wasn't sure this car actually existed, does it or did i see a replica?
26 December 2005, 07:40 PM
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I know there was a couple of red cars and 1 black but have never heard of a silver one , but if you were a bigwig in Ford or had loads of money then anything is possible.....There again it was just a rep.
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27 December 2005, 05:36 PM
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IIRC, Ford had to make a certain amount to allow them to compete in the WRC. Something like 20 "road going" cars had to be made. These rules came about just as Ford ceased production of the Escort Cossie which meant they couldn't meet homologation rules of something like 2000 road cars. To stop Ford dropping out of rallying they changed the rules as it would have meant only Subaru and Mitsubishi would be competing in the WRC at the time.
29 December 2005, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by frayz
No escort cos ever made on an R reg dude 
there was mate cos i've seen a few about and there was one for sale on ebay recently, at last years RS National day there were 3 R reg ones there
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29 December 2005, 01:16 AM
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> IIRC, Ford had to make a certain amount to allow them to compete in the WRC
Sadly you recall wrongly. In the old Gp4 and then GpA days you did indeed have to make so many road cars before you could homologate a racing or rally car. Hence the RS500, they made 500 off road cars (or so they claim....) then they could tweak 10% of them into rocket ships to go rallying.
But WRC rules are different. The rules changed to keep more manufactuers in rallying without spending too much money because nobody except Subrau and Mitsubishi were prepared to make serious numbers of road cars before they could go rallying.
WRC (World Rally Car) rules allowed you to take a mass produced road car, add an engine from any other car in your fleet, turbo charge it and add 4WD, all without making any road versions at all.
Look at the current breed of WRC's, all are 4WD turbo 2 litre, but the road cars are pathetic, road car top of the range focus (until recently) was front wheel drive 2 litre NA, likewise Citroen Xsara fwd NA, likewise Skoda, Pogo 307CC etc etc.
I find it incredible personally, surely Skoda, Ford, Citroen, Peugeot could capitalise on rallying success with a decent 4wd turbo car in the same way as Subaru and Mitsi have. I'd love a 300bhp 2 door 4wd focus. Likewise I'm sure Skoda would clean up with a £20k 300 bhp 4wd Fabia.
Still wouldn't buy a Xsara or 307CC though even if they have won the world championship the last few years.....
Sadly you recall wrongly. In the old Gp4 and then GpA days you did indeed have to make so many road cars before you could homologate a racing or rally car. Hence the RS500, they made 500 off road cars (or so they claim....) then they could tweak 10% of them into rocket ships to go rallying.
But WRC rules are different. The rules changed to keep more manufactuers in rallying without spending too much money because nobody except Subrau and Mitsubishi were prepared to make serious numbers of road cars before they could go rallying.
WRC (World Rally Car) rules allowed you to take a mass produced road car, add an engine from any other car in your fleet, turbo charge it and add 4WD, all without making any road versions at all.
Look at the current breed of WRC's, all are 4WD turbo 2 litre, but the road cars are pathetic, road car top of the range focus (until recently) was front wheel drive 2 litre NA, likewise Citroen Xsara fwd NA, likewise Skoda, Pogo 307CC etc etc.
I find it incredible personally, surely Skoda, Ford, Citroen, Peugeot could capitalise on rallying success with a decent 4wd turbo car in the same way as Subaru and Mitsi have. I'd love a 300bhp 2 door 4wd focus. Likewise I'm sure Skoda would clean up with a £20k 300 bhp 4wd Fabia.
Still wouldn't buy a Xsara or 307CC though even if they have won the world championship the last few years.....
30 December 2005, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Chelspeed
> IIRC, Ford had to make a certain amount to allow them to compete in the WRC
Sadly you recall wrongly. In the old Gp4 and then GpA days you did indeed have to make so many road cars before you could homologate a racing or rally car. Hence the RS500, they made 500 off road cars (or so they claim....) then they could tweak 10% of them into rocket ships to go rallying.
But WRC rules are different. The rules changed to keep more manufactuers in rallying without spending too much money because nobody except Subrau and Mitsubishi were prepared to make serious numbers of road cars before they could go rallying.
WRC (World Rally Car) rules allowed you to take a mass produced road car, add an engine from any other car in your fleet, turbo charge it and add 4WD, all without making any road versions at all.
Look at the current breed of WRC's, all are 4WD turbo 2 litre, but the road cars are pathetic, road car top of the range focus (until recently) was front wheel drive 2 litre NA, likewise Citroen Xsara fwd NA, likewise Skoda, Pogo 307CC etc etc.
I find it incredible personally, surely Skoda, Ford, Citroen, Peugeot could capitalise on rallying success with a decent 4wd turbo car in the same way as Subaru and Mitsi have. I'd love a 300bhp 2 door 4wd focus. Likewise I'm sure Skoda would clean up with a £20k 300 bhp 4wd Fabia.
Still wouldn't buy a Xsara or 307CC though even if they have won the world championship the last few years.....
Sadly you recall wrongly. In the old Gp4 and then GpA days you did indeed have to make so many road cars before you could homologate a racing or rally car. Hence the RS500, they made 500 off road cars (or so they claim....) then they could tweak 10% of them into rocket ships to go rallying.
But WRC rules are different. The rules changed to keep more manufactuers in rallying without spending too much money because nobody except Subrau and Mitsubishi were prepared to make serious numbers of road cars before they could go rallying.
WRC (World Rally Car) rules allowed you to take a mass produced road car, add an engine from any other car in your fleet, turbo charge it and add 4WD, all without making any road versions at all.
Look at the current breed of WRC's, all are 4WD turbo 2 litre, but the road cars are pathetic, road car top of the range focus (until recently) was front wheel drive 2 litre NA, likewise Citroen Xsara fwd NA, likewise Skoda, Pogo 307CC etc etc.
I find it incredible personally, surely Skoda, Ford, Citroen, Peugeot could capitalise on rallying success with a decent 4wd turbo car in the same way as Subaru and Mitsi have. I'd love a 300bhp 2 door 4wd focus. Likewise I'm sure Skoda would clean up with a £20k 300 bhp 4wd Fabia.
Still wouldn't buy a Xsara or 307CC though even if they have won the world championship the last few years.....
The RS500 never went rallying. Homologation requirements for GpA meant 2000 cars had to be built, over a one year period. THE RS500 was conceived for GpA touring car racing. It was the basic, unlimited production, 3 door cossie that was used for rallying.
The 307CC has won **** all, all peugeot's winning was done with various evolutions of the 206, which btw did need a homologation special, known as the 206GT. It had longer front and rear bumpers to bring the 206 over the WRC's minimum length requirement.
As has been mentioned earlier, no Escort WRC road cars were built, but, like all RS fords, the parts required to build your own were availble to purchase.
31 December 2005, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by scoobyboy1
I thought it would have been on a Q reg if it was built up from parts,
31 December 2005, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by scoobyboy1
Hi Scoobmeister, aint seen you round in ages, have you still got your scooby, Last time I saw it, it was outside the Builders merchant next to Dangerfield lane at the begining of the year.
31 December 2005, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by scoobyboy1
Bloody hell, not many classics round like that any more.
31 December 2005, 07:53 PM
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Actually, after reading up on the WRC a bit, any cars competing must have had a publicly available production run of at least 25,000 cars of that particular model and the engine used in the WRC car must have been to at least 2,500 publicly available vehicles. Huge changes where allowed obviously.
Also according to this quote, a limited run of the actual WRC cars had to be produced. That means that a WRC car may or may not have found it's way on to the road...
There was an Arrows special edition Escort Cos which was a road going car...
Also according to this quote, a limited run of the actual WRC cars had to be produced. That means that a WRC car may or may not have found it's way on to the road...
WRC class cars
WRC class cars where introduced in 1997 following a FIA decision. Experience has proven that to win the WRC title a car has to be full time 4WD and, to a lesser extend, use a 2lt turbocharged engine. Not all manufacturers have (or are willing to have) such models in their line up. Additionally mass producing such cars, as "homologation specials", is a risky financial adventure. This class of cars was thus introduced to allow any manufacturer to take part in the WRC with equal chances to success. The WRC class cars have to be produced to very limited numbers in order to get the required FIA homologation. Production numbers can be kept below 50 units (better still than back in the old Group B days where 200 units had to be produced). The typical WRC class car is based upon a large volume production model to which a manufacturer can modify or add the following:
Modified front and rear suspension layout and attachment points
Add-on turbocharger even if the production car does not have one
Modified transmission and additional transmission tunnels in order to fit a 4x4 transmission even if the production car is 2 wheel drive. Consequently differentials and gear box are free.
Modified engine intake and exhaust systems
Modified engine position (the engine can be relocated by a maximum of 20mm as compared to its original position and can be tilted by 20° around the crankshaft axis)
Modified wheelbase (±20mm) and track widths (1550mm max)
The maximum car width allowed is 1770 mm
Minimum length of 4000mm
WRC class cars where introduced in 1997 following a FIA decision. Experience has proven that to win the WRC title a car has to be full time 4WD and, to a lesser extend, use a 2lt turbocharged engine. Not all manufacturers have (or are willing to have) such models in their line up. Additionally mass producing such cars, as "homologation specials", is a risky financial adventure. This class of cars was thus introduced to allow any manufacturer to take part in the WRC with equal chances to success. The WRC class cars have to be produced to very limited numbers in order to get the required FIA homologation. Production numbers can be kept below 50 units (better still than back in the old Group B days where 200 units had to be produced). The typical WRC class car is based upon a large volume production model to which a manufacturer can modify or add the following:
Modified front and rear suspension layout and attachment points
Add-on turbocharger even if the production car does not have one
Modified transmission and additional transmission tunnels in order to fit a 4x4 transmission even if the production car is 2 wheel drive. Consequently differentials and gear box are free.
Modified engine intake and exhaust systems
Modified engine position (the engine can be relocated by a maximum of 20mm as compared to its original position and can be tilted by 20° around the crankshaft axis)
Modified wheelbase (±20mm) and track widths (1550mm max)
The maximum car width allowed is 1770 mm
Minimum length of 4000mm
Last edited by dazc2; 31 December 2005 at 07:55 PM.
01 January 2006, 02:46 AM
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i've been in touch with the RS owners club who assure me that the Escort Cosworth WRC does exist as a road car and a few were made in silver and also R reg so i think the one i seen might have been genuine.
01 January 2006, 09:48 AM
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> Two small corrections there Chelspeed
Wasn't bad though as it was written from memory at 01:16 after a visit to the pub.
And you were right about the 206GT remember that happening now, what a cop out, longer bumpers to get over the minimum length, however did they get away with that? I saw one in a dealers in Swindon, all the advertising hype saying it was a homologation special to go racing implying it was quicker when it was totally standard engine and chassis just with huge ugly bolt on bumpers!
There was also a 10% rule in rallying though wan't there? You had to make 2000 road cars that were generally what you wanted then once you hit 2000 you were allowed to modify 10% of them to the complete spec? Or was that racing, 5000 off Sierra Cossie built then they could do 10% as RS500's....
There were 200 off 6R4's and 200 off RS200's as well were there not? But that was GpB rather than GpA to go racing.... Oh well not important, too long ago.
Wasn't bad though as it was written from memory at 01:16 after a visit to the pub.
And you were right about the 206GT remember that happening now, what a cop out, longer bumpers to get over the minimum length, however did they get away with that? I saw one in a dealers in Swindon, all the advertising hype saying it was a homologation special to go racing implying it was quicker when it was totally standard engine and chassis just with huge ugly bolt on bumpers!
There was also a 10% rule in rallying though wan't there? You had to make 2000 road cars that were generally what you wanted then once you hit 2000 you were allowed to modify 10% of them to the complete spec? Or was that racing, 5000 off Sierra Cossie built then they could do 10% as RS500's....
There were 200 off 6R4's and 200 off RS200's as well were there not? But that was GpB rather than GpA to go racing.... Oh well not important, too long ago.
01 January 2006, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by dazc2
To stop Ford dropping out of rallying they changed the rules as it would have meant only Subaru and Mitsubishi would be competing in the WRC at the time.
02 January 2006, 09:58 AM
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> There was also a 10% rule in rallying though wan't there?
Been doing some research and it all comes flooding back. The 10% rule was "Evolution". You had to make 2000 cars with the basic kit you wanted in a year. Then a year later you were allowed to make an evolution homologation where you tweaked some small bits of the spec and only had to make 10% more cars to the new spec ie 200 off rather than 2000. Hence the Evoluzionne (sp?) Integrale's and of course our old friends the Evo 1, 2, 3 etc etc Mitsi's.
Been doing some research and it all comes flooding back. The 10% rule was "Evolution". You had to make 2000 cars with the basic kit you wanted in a year. Then a year later you were allowed to make an evolution homologation where you tweaked some small bits of the spec and only had to make 10% more cars to the new spec ie 200 off rather than 2000. Hence the Evoluzionne (sp?) Integrale's and of course our old friends the Evo 1, 2, 3 etc etc Mitsi's.
02 January 2006, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Castrol
Any chance they'll be changing them again in the next day or two, to stop the WRC just being contested by Subaru and Ford this year?
It's these homologation rules than make manufacturers release some of these fantastic cars into the general public. I prefer the less mundane and bland cars that these rules provoke into production compared to the usual monotonous production run that most manufacturers churn out.
02 January 2006, 06:29 PM
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> It's these homologation rules than make manufacturers release
> some of these fantastic cars into the general public
It did, but it doesn't any more.
That was the point of this thread, was there an Escort WRC road car for homologation? Conclusion is that there is no requirment for making your "fantastic road cars" to allow you to compete in WRC (although ford may have done a few).
The old Gp4,GpB then GpA meant you had to but WRC doesn't. Shame.
> some of these fantastic cars into the general public
It did, but it doesn't any more.
That was the point of this thread, was there an Escort WRC road car for homologation? Conclusion is that there is no requirment for making your "fantastic road cars" to allow you to compete in WRC (although ford may have done a few).
The old Gp4,GpB then GpA meant you had to but WRC doesn't. Shame.
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