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iTrader: (1)

It looks like I may not be able to stretch (£) to a 911 (964) with a reasonable mileage - most of the early 911/964s within my budget have HUGE mileage.

So, I thought OK, what about the 968 - I recall the Club Sport was highly rated when it came out.

Does anyone have any views/experience of these?

Many thanks,

Richard.

The Chief

A guy at work, his mate had one for a couple of years and he raved about the handling, ok it did not sound as good as a 911 but for a four pot not too bad a great drivers car apparently.

Listy

968 is a fantastic Car..........

Still see loads of these arriving on trailers at track days!

Personally I'd go for 968, it shows you have taste and an understanding of a quality drivng machine rather than just wanting a cheep 911 cos it's a Porsche.

All IMHO oc course

MarkCSC

968 is waaaaaaay cheaper to run as well. Just ask any specialist about servicing. The 964 is very expensive to service.

davyboy

The 968CS is only a great car If it has M030, LSD and bucket seats.

If it does not have those options, it is in effect just a cheap 968 which you will be paying a premium for becuase it's called a CS.

Dave

EvoBarry

Passengered in one on Friday of last week, and from the seat of my pants it felt superb, very neutral handling with that 50/50 balance, not overly rapid but plenty for track use, sounded good, stopped well... in short, its on my list of future motors

http://www.evoposters.net/carpics2/Oulton/Barry1.jpg

davyboy

Thats the best colour Barry!

Oh yeah, the M030 cars gets the big front brakes too.....

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Mate of a mate had one and sold it to buy a 911 turbo (in about 1999 this is), kept the turbo for a few months and bought another 968, not for any financial reason, he just preffered it. Dont see it as second best as based on the above, it isnt, plus you dont see many.

GC8

All Club Sports have M030, Kevlar seats and an LSD. A number of CS's will have had the seats removed though as they were as uncomfortable as a b*stard and I sold countless sets of Sports Bolsters to CS owners.

As an aside, a better car for trackdays would be a very early '44 fitted with M030. Itll always be faster than an S2 because they weigh so little (probably still if the S2 is gutted and certainly if you lighten the '44); the very first (1982/1983) cars were much much crisper than later cars too.


Simon

davyboy

I am afraid that is incorrect. The M030, LSD and seats were all options.

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iTrader: (1)

Thanks for that Simon - I have owned a 944 (D reg with 186,000 miles) and it was still a very crisp car to drive.

Much depends on the final amount of £ I will have - still not sure exactly what purchasing power will be, and I need the car for a 50 mile per day commute (hence concerns over high mileage 911s).

There are a few (very very few) 968s for sale on the web with 40,000 - 50,000 miles - not sure if one of these or a late E36 Evo M3 would be more "suitable".

A nice problem to have in not knowing what to buy next

"List" is (so far) and I am sure some Scoobynetters will come up with some more ideas - the list is just a collection of cars I haven't yet owned:

Audi RS2 (big mileage on these - haven't seen one for sale with less than 80,000).
Audi S4 (I understand cost of maintenance is quite high).
BMW E36 M3 Evo Coupe/Saloon/Cab (fantastic all rounders + most have had VANOS replaced ).
BMW E39 528/530 Sport (big and good looking).
BMW 840 (no, perhaps not).
Lotus Esprit (well maybe not).
Lotus Carlton (engine rebuilds at £25,000 + is putting me off, but you only live life once).
Lotus Elise (can't give a lift to more than one person and are they such good fun on a wet winter's morning)?
Mercedes-Benz C43/C36 (really like these - a great Q car).
TVR Chimaera (400 or 450 - I know I know mad as a brush).
Porsche 968 (a few good ones about - but getting rare).
Porsche 944 Turbo/Silver Rose (again not many about that haven't been to the moon and back).
Porsche 911 (maybe and a big maybe if I get enough £££££££££).

I have my flame suit on and ready - so come on

davyboy

A 968 is a good choice, but maybe the CS is not for you as you will spend so much time travelling. The M030 is pretty hardcore, and with bucket seats it's not comfortable!

Maybe a better choice is the 968 sport?

GC8

Its very difficult to articulate... The very early Series 1 cars (nothing to do with the 'S2'; which was just a name) were much nicer to drive from a performance perspective. They were very light with manual sunroofs (some didnt have a lift out roof at all) and no power steering: lighter than the later specced up Series 1 cars and much lighter than the Series 2 'oval dash' cars. The DME was different on the '82/'83 cars too (although the injectors were the same as all Series 1 cars), the cars pulled better and revved more cleanly. I believe that noise regulations were tightened up, but Im not sure. The very early cars are 'crisper'; I cant think of a better way to describe it. A driend of mine has probably owned/driven 500 944's (although it might be 1000...) and 'crisp' was the best description that we could muster.


Simon

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iTrader: (1)

I am trying to find an old edition on Porsche/911 World mgazine (I think from Nov/Dec 2003) in which they did a back to back road test of the base car, Sport, CS and Convertible - can't find the magazine anywhere at home (damn).

Richard

GC8

I wouldnt entertain the Sport; go for the CS, you know that you want to. If you find the seats too extreme then replace them (for day to day use). Any porsche seats will bolt straight to the floor; from a 1976 3.0 Turbo (bolstered but quirky) to light '24 and early '44 seats. Later '44 seats will fit but you cant practically connect/control the motors and theyre damned heavy. The best option would be either a set of nice black Logo seats out of a late 165bhp 924S or a set of early 944 Sports Bolsters. The Bolsters would look especially smart if you had them re-trimmed in black leather, which mightnt cost as much as you think if you know where to go.


Simon

davyboy

There are plenty of CS about with non sports cloth seats.

GC8

There may be; but they didnt leave Neckarsulm like that.


Simon

Gastro

968 or 944... As Davyboy has eluded to MO30, LSD and Bucket seats were options and make a 968 CS with them factory fitted very desirable (circa £15k for a good one).

Consider slightly higher mileage circa 70k miles and focus more on how its been maintained... the engine is a big 3.0 litre and mileage won't be a problem..... golden rules with all older Porkers is maintenance history - not necessarily low miles !

Anyway - I don't venture over here too often come over to www.stuttgart9.co.uk and ask a man called allan (Weltmeister) - he has excellent knowledge and just happens to own WRC technologies as well as specialising in 944, 968 sales

Good luck - and BTW don't even think of a 964 - the very numbers bring me out in a rash when I remember owning one......

Gastro

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iTrader: (1)

Gastro - thanks for that - I get the impression that the 964 is a bit of a "mongrel" (nothing wrong with that as I love dogs) - but I have looked at a white 968 @ Autobahn (Coventry) was very very impressed.

p1doc

why is 964 a mongrel mate has 964 carrera 4 sweet car out of all 911's i like the 964 look best,if i got one would it cost me long term? and why exactly
martin

Gastro

Why - well its the most expensive of all 911's to run for starters.
The engine was too complex for its day - its got gaskets everywhere - which - to quote a garage 'they all leak oil - just varying degrees'....
Up to 1992 the egnine piston design was such that most had problems with barrel/pistons - ie by 40k miles they burn oil, leak oil and these are very expensive to fix (when I had mine with similar problems - I was quoted circa £4k to sort).

Other things with the 964 are the dual ignition system (ie 12 sparks) which can be expensive to maintain/tune.......... the dual mass flywheel is a weakness and bl**dy expensive to fix.......Oh and the service takes 2-days because it doesn't have hydraulic tappets so they need to be adjusted when cold. Remember that while the labour may be £500-700 once you've put on consumables and a few 'porsche parts' you easily looking at £1-1.5k.

All in all my experience was a nightmare in terms of costs (I had one 5yrs ago and it was a 'good' example). You might be able to pick one up for £15k but to run one is a different story.

Don'[t say you haven't been warned. I didn't when I was told of the costs..... but I wish I had !

Trout

iTrader: (1)

You don't say what your budget could be.

You could get an early 911 993 close to the cost of some of these cars. I owned one for two years and it cost me £500 pa to service and that was it. It had average mileage and had been well used. Even a good late varioram can be had for £24k (evo magazine have just bought one for their fast fleet)!!

Just a thought.

Rannoch

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iTrader: (1)

Thank you for the post (+ all the others).

I have approximately £20,000 - £25,000 to spend, so I maybe able to stretch to a low mileage (c. 50,000 miles) 964 either Carrera 2 or 4.

A 993 would be great - all depends on £££££££££ - as always!

Richard

VWscooby

Wasn't that car that flew past me last saturday on the M5 was it? Rapid as hell!

EvoBarry

No idea tbh fella, I only met the guy that day so I don't know where he harks from. He doesn't hang about though so you never know

Gastro

Richard - without being rude - have you not listened to anything people have said ? FORGET a 964 (please - it'll be the worst mistake you ever make buying one for £20-25k).... for that money you should be able to get into a 993........ thats the 911 you should buy believe me.

Good luck.

Gastro

the moose

For £20-25k you can get a 993 without any problems. The bigger question is whether you want to go a little further (and it's only a *little* further) and get a 996.

I know the 993 is supposed to be the more purist car .....but I preferred the 996 to drive.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

As I said above evo have just bought an immaculate P plate varioram 993 with 80k miles for £24k.

I have just sold a black/grey leather P plate 1996 varioram with 78k miles, FSH, FSR, electric sports seats, new P Zero N4s all around and 12 months T&T for £25k and it was hard work to sell. It took five weeks to move on. It is a buyers market for these cars if you have cash.

If you have the money - get looking. You can even get into a high mileage private 996 for £25k.

You will have to shop around - do not buy the first car you see - they really are excellent cars. Read the most recent evo as they now have it in their fast fleet. It has the same performance figures as Coxster - sorry Cayman.

The 993 is refined, has brilliant suspension for UK roads, better than the majority of Scoobs, steering is not quite as delicate as early cars, but is still very good. Throttle response is excellent and low down torque is a miracle after the Scoob. A lack of turbo makes it feel less frenetic - but big GT runs mislead you with the amazing pace you will make and the ease it accelerates over 80 mph.

Tyres and servicing is relatively cheap - it was cheaper to run than my BMW 330Ci.

Well sorry I didn't see this before it was sold - however keep the faith and put this on your list. It is a FAR better overall car than the engineered on the production line 964.

Good luck in your search.

Rannoch

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iTrader: (1)

Gastro - senior moment - I meant to type 993 (!)

There are a number of cars (993) within budget in Top Marques, and I shall have a look at a number of the "specialist" traders.

If I can get into a 993, this would be obviously better (much better) than a 964.

Sorry I did not make my thoughts clearer - must be the cold weather

Thanks for all your posts - Scooby Net source of all knowledge.

Richard

Gastro

No problem ...... I'll freely admit that the 964 is a bug bear of mine, and I have consistently said I will do my upmost to help others not make the same mistake as I did.

It was a stressful time in my life

Looking around, 993's really are coming into bargain territory IMHO. Please let us know what you finally get....... go on treat yourself for Xmas

BTW there are a couple of very nice looking 968's on Pistonheads at the moment - don't discount this as an option unless you are totally sold on a 911. The yellow LHD 968 CS owner must be having a senior moment also - wanting nearly £18k is a joke BTW !

Gastro