rye2k2

Hey ppl

Just wanted to know everyone's thoughts on this...

Aswell as what ppl think of the RS focus in general an - Power, handling, looks ??

Rye

Tidgy

the people i know who have driven/own havn't been that impressed, seem to hold there value ok where as the wrx will not in big style

RAF1

iTrader: (5)

Looks - like a focus..!!
handling is ok-ish for a fwd
performance - i thought was pretty disappointing.... (was expecting sort of cossy performance/drive)
quite like the interior though...
Personally if i had the choice for 16k i'd get meself a Golf R32 - better all rounder for the money.... IMO Of course


Raf.

Dark Blue Mark

Is this thread a wind up?



MB

PG

Bear in mind you are asking on a Subaru BBS where there are a lot of blinkered souls.
They are both great cars. Different cars, The Scoob is a much easier car to drive, a lot more forgiving whereas the RS is a (IMO) much better 'drivers' car.
Point to point the FRS will be slightly quicker and more fun ....in the dry
The sound of the scoob is nicer thats for sure.
As has been mentioned the residuals are worlds apart. My cousin had a FRS put 10k miles on it over a year and lost....£1500 !!! Sold with in a week. He and I lost considerably more on our Scoobs.

meganesport.net

IMO they are totally different kettles of fish, if you want a raw handling driving expereince go for the STI but if you want any kind of street cred/posing value go for the focus RS. FRS would probably be more of a keeper as a genuine future classic. Scoob STI is obviously very capable but too numerous to be of much intrest for anything other than if you want a rally car for a daily driver?

dexter

Being the owner of a Scooby STi, and having driven an FRS, I would disagree with you on certain points. IMHO, the Scooby is the better driver`s car, as it feels more planted and secure on virtually any road surface, whereas the RS, on the other hand, coupled with its excessive torque-steer, felt more of a handful and less eager to cope with some road surfaces.

Because of this, I, again, feel that the STi is the quicker car point-to-point, as its easier to get the extra 40-ish ? bhp down (FRS 215-225bhp, STi 265 bhp).

The residuals however, I would agree with........................

PG

Have you driven either of them ?
"Raw," the STi in comparrison to the RS.....I dont think so. As has been mentioned the Scoob feels more at ease (if not a little to easy) on any surface. The FRS is more of a challenge / more enjoyable on different surfaces.
I do not confess to being any kind of driving expert (far from it if the truth be known) but it has to be said that a scoob could be driven quickly round a track by someone the day after they throw off the L plates the FRS on the otherhand they would find a little more tricky. (and if 'Bluefin' is fitted )
Street cred/Posing, FRS.....many would not see it as being any different to a std Focus whereas the Scoob is all gold wheels and spoilers. Depends what street you are driving down and what kind of "cred" you are wanting I supose.

Anyhoo I hate all this "my dads bigger than your dad" ****e.
Both good cars. Test drive both if you are serious. You will prefer one to the other. Buy the one you like and enjoy it. Dont come on here trying to justify your choise. Dont number-crunch every aspect of your cars performance and moan that a car you feel is inferior may perform as well if not better than the car you prefer to all the others you test drove.....ect...ect

Senior_AP

PMSL.

God I love this forum.

stilover

Well I've owned both, and I can honestly say that in the dry the FRS will out corner a Sti. It really is that good. Even in the wet I was pretty much going as fast as if I was in the dry. The Focus is by far better built, feels more solid. The steering has much better waight, and the gear shift is a joy to use, and the brakes, Much better, and more feel than the Sti. A FRS would deffo give an Sti a run for its money on A & B roads. You can Blufin the RS and make it quicker, but a Prodrived Sti is by far the quicker car. The only thing wrong with the RS, and the reason I sold it, was cos of the Torque steer on bumpy roads. It got to the point that I didn't dare overtake in case I side swiped the car I was overtaking (nearly happend a few times) and of course in the lower gears you just can't get of the line quickly, too much wheel spin.
Ford missed out big style on not giving it 4wd, which would have meant they could have given it more power.
If they bring out (which they won't) a Focus RS mk II with 4wd & 300+bhp then I'll probably get one.

On the right roads the RS is a very quick ground coverer, and I shocked a few scooby's with mine (Bluefin'd)
Oh yes and after 2 years and 20k miles I got £17K trade in, losing just £3K. How many cars just lose that?

Frazer

17 k trade in vs what though?

jeremy

Stillover:

"Ford missed out big style on not giving it 4wd"

You got that fu%%ing right! Ford are cheap to the marrow. They still can't even put an independant rear suspension on the mustang, citing cost concerns. Ford- and the merry fool who runs them, grandson " Billy" continue to literally and figurativly drive themselves out of business.

For goodness sake already, Ford! make some exciting cars that everyday people can drive! Make cars as high quality as VW's and make them at least as great to drive as Subaru's!

If Ford continue like this, and if the price of gas continues to be high, their only profit stream left the big dino trucks, will be gone, and no help from Volvo (let alone Jaguar) will be enough; there will not be enough reason for most of us to buy a ford, and then poof they will be a memory. If no serious cars come in the next few years I predict a take-over just like with chrysler.

bobby-jo

would not buy the focus, get yourself a escort cossy, miles better than the focus and they hold there price really well


bob

TheJesus

I take it you dont know the dif between grip and handling then? lol

compshack

I had a Focus RS. Superb car, at least as fast as a Standard STi UK.
I didn't feel any torque steer at all, brilliant handling.
Build quality was good apart from the squeeky seats. Really looked the part. Cheap insurance too through Ford Insure.
I was speaking to a Ford dealer, he told me Ford actually made a loss on the RS. The reason was to get the RS name back on the map.

Sold it for more than I paid for it. Then bought an STi and lost money ever since.

stilover

It cost Ford £27K to build the RS, and sold them for £19,995. As you say, it was to get the RS badge back to the market. I think they spent so much on name's, ie Sparco, Brembo etc and giving the car to Prodrive to help develop that the cost just went skywards. Without 4wd there was no way they could charge £27k.

stilover

2005 Subaru Impreza WRX STi Type uk with PPP.

Diablo

Are you for real?

There is nothing about the competent STI that would be close to a "raw handling experience" LOL

Rally car my **** - its a highly competent high volume ROAD car.

Unlike the FRS which was a low volume special and which in standard form would be much more entertaining on track.

Type R

My opinion is neither are drivers car, wouldnt want either.

Moray

RS does quite well in 5th gear shootout, guess it isnt a drivers car then LOL

Steve vRS

Eh?

Moray

I guess it needs to be AWD so **** drivers can drive it at a reasonable speed safely.

Duck_Pond

Should have been RWD

DeltaBravo 9

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

mightyyid

Eh? Again.... what?

You cannot just give a car 4wd or awd - there is a bit more to it than that. The Focus chassis was never set up for awd and never would be without significant engineering. Subaru only have awd, so its a bit different. So cost is hardly relevant. As for Mustang, lets cite another totally different car that through cost issues had to be like that. What's the disappointment - the Mustang is a classy car to drive and yes, it could be better, but in the US its cheap and fun (cheaper than a WRX is over here) so again, your argument is not only incorrect but totally inaccurate.

As for cars as exciting to drive, there are. Just you haven't driven them. And yes, build quality needs to be better but they are getting there and come on, build quality of a MY05 WRX to a Focus is chalk and cheese - the Ford would win hands down.

And very interesting you tale on Ford being taken over? By whom precisely? Toyota - nope! GM (who are losing more money of the big 3 than anyone) - nope. Then there's Ford. Maybe you and your mates are putting in a takeover bid....

There are some good arguments and there are others who show themselves to be ignorant of many things.... but it made me laugh.

DeltaBravo 9

i missed this so here we go , hahahahahahaahahahahahahaahahaha don't , please stop !!

jeremy

You guys are completly out of touch with reality. Ford is going down the tubes right before your very eyes! While every now and again it makes some very good vehicles, most of time it personifies average or worse. Yes the Focus is a good car, but that doesn't do it.

To start Ford needs a high performance hatch and sedan to show the world that it can make great cars to aspire to. High performance is not front wheel drive and is not so-so reliability and is not average build quality! Ford have sat on there rear-end for too long and now they are getting what they deserve.

Here are the FACTS PEOPLE---AND THEY AIN'T PRETTY!

Ford, DaimlerChrysler U.S. Sales Decline in October
Nov. 1 (Bloomberg) -- Ford Motor Co. and DaimlerChrysler AG's U.S. auto sales declined after the companies ended discounts that let customers pay the same prices for cars and trucks as the automakers' employees.

Ford, the second-largest U.S. automaker, said its October U.S. sales of cars and trucks dropped 26 percent to 199,847. DaimlerChrysler AG, the world's fifth-largest automaker, said sales of its Chrysler and Mercedes-Benz vehicles were down 2.8 percent to 183,163. Nissan Motor Co.'s sales fell 17 percent.

General Motors Corp., Ford and Chrysler, the three biggest U.S. automakers, all stopped offering employee-discount prices in early October. The deals had helped GM in June post its biggest sales month in 18 years and allowed Ford to snap a streak of 28 months of falling U.S. market share. The discounts began to lose their effectiveness in September, and Asian automakers such as Toyota Motor Corp. gained market share.

``Any time you end incentives that have been as significant as these have been, it's going to be a shock to the market,'' said David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Toyota, which relies less on incentives, is expected to report sales rose.

GM and Ford said in October they are replacing rebates in the hopes of attracting customers with lower sticker prices.

Fewer Rebates

GM said last month it will continue a program of lower prices on about 30 of its 2006 models and give either price cuts or free added features and warranties on more than 50 models. Ford has cut 2006 prices on models such as the F-150 pickup, Explorer SUV and Escape small sport-utility vehicle.

U.S. automakers have already been spending less on rebates and discounts, with October incentives declining 9.2 percent from September to $3,519, according to Bandon, Oregon-based CNW Marketing Research. It's the fifth straight month that U.S. auto incentives have fallen, according to CNW data.

``At least for the Big Three, they're saying, `We've got to bite the bullet, we have to do some fundamental things in our business,''' Cole said. ``One of those things is to get pricing that is reasonable in the market, get away from incentives.''

GM's October incentives fell 7.3 percent to $4,892, while Ford had a 7.6 percent drop to $4,166 and Chrysler slipped 0.7 percent to $3,627, CNW said. Incentives rose 0.2 percent at Toyota to $2,511, 3 percent at Honda Motor Co. to $2,486 and 3.1 percent at Nissan to $2,020.

Ford

Sales of Ford's F-Series trucks, the industry's top-selling line of vehicles, fell 32 percent to 54,404. Sales of Explorer, the top-selling SUV, declined 59 percent to 12,122 and the Expedition large SUV fell 51 percent to 6,047.

Sales of Ford's redesigned Mustang sports car rose 22 percent to 11,234.

Chrysler sales declined 3.1 percent to 164,814, the Stuttgart, Germany-based company said in a statement today. Mercedes-Benz sales increased 0.1 percent to 18,349.

October sales at GM dropped more than 20 percent, according to a Bloomberg survey of economists and analysts. Vehicles sold at an annual rate of 15.2 million units, a seven-year low, down from 16.9 million in October 2004, the survey said. All automakers are scheduled to release October results today.

`War'

``The problems go beyond the ending of the employee discounts,'' said Sean Egan, managing director of Egan-Jones Ratings Co., an independent debt-rating firm in Haverford, Pennsylvania. ``Toyota and Honda are killing them in terms of their ability to produce vehicles that people want on time and at a low cost. We consider this a war of attrition with Ford and GM on the losing end.''

Analysts cited weakening consumer confidence for the October decline. According to the Conference Board, American consumers lost confidence for the second consecutive month in October as rising energy prices left them with less money to spend.

Paul Ballew, Detroit-based GM's chief sales analyst, last month projected an annual sales rate of 15 million units in October, below his original forecast. Automakers have sold an average of 16.9 million vehicles annually in the U.S. over the past five years.

GM and Ford sales also are declining as higher fuel prices hurt the sales of the largest, least-fuel efficient SUVs. The price of a gallon of regular unleaded gasoline has risen 39 percent this year to $2.48 this week, according to the U.S. Energy Department. The price has declined the last four weeks.

SUV Sales

Sales of the largest SUVs fell 16 percent in the first nine months of this year, according to Global Insight Inc., a Lexington, Massachusetts, forecasting firm. Sales of crossover SUVs, which combine features of cars and trucks and are generally more fuel efficient, rose 12 percent,

The emphasis on fuel economy is helping Asian automakers who offer more smaller SUVs with better gas mileage. Robert Barry, an analyst with Goldman, Sachs & Co. in New York, estimates that sales Asian automakers will report a 5 percent gain in sales.

Asian automakers captured 38.2 percent of the U.S. market, in September, their second-highest month ever after August's 39 percent, according to Autodata.

Ford Motor Company today reported net income of 60 cents per share, or $1.21 billion, for the first quarter of 2005. This compares with net income of 94 cents per share, or $1.95 billion, in the first quarter of 2004.

Ford's first-quarter earnings from continuing operations, excluding special items, were 62 cents per share, or $1.26 billion.

Ford's total sales and revenue in the first quarter rose to $45.1 billion from $44.7 billion in the year-ago period.

"The plan that we launched in 2002 has led to profits and positive cash flow," said Bill Ford, chairman and chief executive officer. "Going forward, we will continue to focus on improving our quality, lowering our costs, and delivering exciting new products, as well as taking actions that strengthen our finances, optimize our global footprint and lead to the faster development of new products."

The following discussion of the results of our automotive sector and business units is on a basis that excludes special items. See attachment for the nature and amount of these special items and a reconciliation to pre-tax results on a GAAP basis.

AUTOMOTIVE SECTOR

On a pre-tax basis, excluding special items of $106 million, worldwide automotive profits in the first quarter were $579 million, down by $1.25 billion from the same period a year ago.

Worldwide automotive sales for the first quarter rose to $39.3 billion from $38.8 billion in the same period last year. Worldwide vehicle-unit sales in the quarter were 1,716,000, down from 1,788,000 a year ago.

Operating-related cash flow was $800 million positive for the quarter. Automotive cash, marketable securities, loaned securities and short-term Voluntary Employee Beneficiary Association (VEBA) assets on March 31, 2005 were $22.9 billion, down from $23.6 billion at the end of the fourth-quarter.

THE AMERICAS

For the first quarter, the Americas reported a pre-tax profit of $740 million, excluding special items, down $1.24 billion from a $1.98 billion pre-tax profit in the same period a year ago.

North America: In the first quarter, Ford's North American automotive operations reported pre-tax profit of $663 million, excluding special items, down $1.3 billion from a year ago. Lower volumes, higher costs, unfavorable currency exchange, and unfavorable net pricing contributed to the decline. Sales were $21.1 billion, down from $23.2 billion in the same period a year ago.

South America: Ford's South American automotive operations reported a first-quarter pre-tax profit of $77 million, an increase of $62 million from first quarter 2004. The improvement reflected primarily higher volumes, favorable currency exchange, and higher pricing partially offset by higher commodity costs. Revenue for the first quarter increased to $866 million from $650 million in 2004.

FORD EUROPE AND PREMIER AUTOMOTIVE GROUP (PAG)

The 2005 first-quarter combined pre-tax profit for Ford Europe and PAG automotive operations was $4 million, compared with a profit of $38 million for the year-ago period, excluding special items, a year-over-year deterioration of $34 million.

Ford Europe: Ford Europe's first-quarter pre-tax profit was $59 million, compared with a pre-tax profit of $5 million, excluding special items, during the 2004 period. The improvement of $54 million primarily reflected higher volume and ongoing cost reductions. Ford Europe's sales in the first quarter increased to $7.7 billion, compared with $6.5 billion during the first quarter of 2004.

Premier Automotive Group: PAG reported a pre-tax loss of $55 million for the first quarter, compared with a pre-tax profit of $33 million for the first quarter of 2004. The decline in results primarily reflected unfavorable currency exchange, offset partially by lower costs. First-quarter sales for PAG were $7.6 billion, compared with $6.8 billion a year ago.

FORD ASIA-PACIFIC and AFRICA/MAZDA

The 2005 first-quarter combined pre-tax profit for Ford Asia-Pacific and Africa/Mazda was $97 million, compared with $82 million for the year-ago period, a year-over-year improvement of $15 million.

Ford Asia-Pacific and Africa: For the first quarter of 2005, Ford Asia- Pacific and Africa reported a pre-tax profit of $43 million, an improvement of $15 million from the same period a year ago. The improvement primarily reflected higher volumes and a gain on the sale of Ford's interest in Mahindra and Mahindra in India. Sales rose to $2 billion, compared with $1.6 billion during the first quarter of 2004.

Mazda: During the first quarter of 2005, Ford's share of the pre-tax profit of Mazda and associated operations was $54 million, unchanged from the same period a year ago.

stilover

Blimey !!!!!!!!

You are right though Jeremy, Ford need to give the World High performance models.
If you look at the 80's and early 90's Ford Cosworths were the car's to have and be seen in. If I was my age now, then I would have been driving either a Sierra or Escort Cosworth.

dazzer wrx

Iam a big fan of the sierra cossie but i would not change my o3 wrx for a ford, i have raced a cossie from a set of lights and at first he stayed with me then he dropped off. But i dont no what bhp he had under the bonnet

craigdmcd

iTrader: (2)

Yep, Jeremy's right, not. The big difference not will be Ford making high developmental cost short run cars (5000 Sierra RS Cosworths) compared to how many F150 pick-ups it can drill out cost cheaply (800,000 a year not so long ago). In reality, all the big firms are pulling out of relatively low volume high cost performance market. Where are the high performance Toyota's (GT4 and Supra), Honda's (NSX's), Nissan's (a little slow to replace the Skyline's). All manufacturer's are struggling, as economic cycles swing between continents. It wasn't so long ago that the Japanese market was in turmoil, with rumours of many of the big companies hitting hard times (thankfully they did, so we all got cheap imports). Ford will bounce back, if for no other reason, they will be like various american airline companies that the US government will not let go bankrupt.
As for the Focus RS, why the hell not have one, at least it's more exclusive than a Scooby (of which I own two), and you won't lose a ton of money, and they possibly have one of the largest and most enthusiastic owners clubs.