john banks

How would a RWD car on 17" winter tyres compare for typical UK snow use to a Subaru on 17" Eagle F1s?

stilover

Badly !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How would a 3 legged dog compare to a 4 legged dog in a fight?

Kieran_Burns

iTrader: (1)

first time you put any power through the rear wheels they'll end up in front of you.

AWD in the winter gives you loads more control and climbing ability

Brit_in_Japan

I can't say I've done a back to back test, but I can say that winter tyres make a huge difference in ice and snow compared to summer tyres. In snowy conditions I have to try hard to break traction in my WRX with Michelin Drice winter tyres. With summer tyres I would have to try hard to maintain traction.

On snow/ice I suspect RWD with good new winter tyres would outperform any AWD on summer tyres. Of course winter tyres on AWD would be substantially better than both.

logiclee

AWD with Eagle F1's on snow = Crash.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Depends if you have an LSD

For example a Land Rover Defender/disco etc is useless in the snow/mud with all the diffs open, even though they are permenent 4wd - no better or sometimes worse than a 2wd vehicle with an LSD.....lock the centre and diff and then you can actually get the advantage....lock a few more difs and you can go anywhere

As an answer If the RWD car with winter tyres has an LSD...then I would guess that would be better than a Scoob with summer tyres

MattOz

John,

I've never had a problem with mine, even on standard 18's. Keeping momentum up is the key, and switching DSC off is a must. With DSC on, the car will go nowhere.

Cheers
Matt

john banks

I've had F1s through four Scottish winters with no problems though. I was wondering how RWD would be with snow tyres in comparison.

... that is what I was really wondering.

Thanks Matt.

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Why not pick up a set of 16" MY99 style wheels for peanuts & put on winter tyres - Vredstein [sp] or simillar.

I did a thread on this a couple of years back & there's some useful info someplace

Robertio

iTrader: (1)

You have nothing to worry about with the RWD route John. My RX-7 running 255/40/17 normal road tyres will go through normal snow levels without difficulty, got down the A9 a couple of years back just as they were closing the road (last car through). The outside lane had over a foot of snow on it, so nothing was in it, and the inside lane was 6-8", my only problem would have been lack of ground clearance as at that level the splitter was working as a snow plow

I found the scoob had much better traction, which just resulted in me driving faster - not ideal given AWD doesn't help slowing down but as long as you have some sort of throttle control you'll be OK (never used winter tyres, but they are supposed to make a huge difference, should you want to drive faster in the snow ). Even my old Westfield was OK in the snow, only drawback being the snow piled up under the wipers, so I had to sit upright and look out over the screen

Dave uk blue mica

i'd prefer to drive my rally car with forest tyres all day in the snow than an impreza, my old impreza was a nightmare in the snow and the ABS is dreadful on them.

GC8

Its easy to say better (assuming that youve got an LSD); but the fact that youve asked the question suggests that you wouldnt be caught out in the typical (ScoobyNet poster's) manner. As Puff suggests, Id get a set of cheap rims and fit a set of Colway M&S tyres, the narrower the better.

Simon

easyrider

John-I would say that awd would have the edge over the 2wd.

I had to tow a stuck 3.5 tonne van up a fairly steep icy hill ,without a run up!!-that was in a UK scoob,so no lockable diffs-also on F1's.
I'd be suprised if a 2wd with snow tyres would have been able to do it as well.

As said before-snow tyres do make a fair difference over std ones though.

Gary.

Nevetas

I have experienced this first hand!!!

I can tell you honestly the awd car even on summer tyres will blow the rwd car away,

I have been caught in blizzards in Germany both in my old scooby and the M3. The scooby was AMAZING on summer tyres. The M3 nearly killed me.

If you have a RWD car on WINTER tyres it may be better, however the AWD car will ALWAYS win.

AWD everytime!

swaussie

Depends on how much snow and ice you drive on. Over here (in Switzerland) most cars are RWD and run on winter tyres without any problems what so ever. Even a 4WD scoob will suffer badly in heavy snow with summers as the rubber is too hard and the tread pattern doesnt clear itself of snow and becomes a big snowball.

For my money and with a bit of experience in this area I would go with RWD and Winter tyres. I changed to summer tyres about 2 weeks too early this year and got caught in decent snow. It was scary to say the least because AWD doesnt help if you have an icy surface and steep camber (i.e. I was forced to drive with opposite lock to go in a straight line). If its light snow or slush the summers might be OK but the rubber compound is still too hard to give really good grip from what I understand.

Nevetas

Best bet would be 4wd with winter tyres.

That should see the worst of it off.

January 2005...





February 2005...

zax

Given the choice, I'd take the RWD car with snow tyres. F1s in particular aren't so good in the snow due to their tread pattern. No point having four wheel drive if the tyres can't hold the road surface.

Put it this way - me in a BMW 330 with "mild" winter tyres (no studs) against somebody in a classic Subaru turbo on F1s in the snow... I will be home first. And I'm a ****ty driver You shouldn't underestimate the difference good snow tyres make.

I've had both, so speak from experience...

ozzy

UK snow? what's that then. I need to get above 2000ft to see any amount of great significance, especially in Central Scotland

Never driven on winter tyres, but I've survived plenty of winter climbing/hiking trips to some fairly remote roads in the Western Highlands over the past 3 years. I've never had a major problem with my Impreza running Toyo's, Goodyears or even Hankooks.

Depends on how quickly you want to make progress and what the conditions are. Power delivery is one thing, but if the tyres lose traction on any slippery surface you'll run out of road before you can save the car.

The only times I've almost got myself into trouble is driving too fast or being caught out on patches of black ice. My RB5 gets very tail-happy in the soft fluffy stuff.

I'm thinking about putting some winter tyres on my spare 17" speedlines this winter, but since the weathers never that bad where I head I'm in two minds. If you travel up the East Coast they tend to get a little more of it lying around.

Stefan

Learining how to control your right-foot helps too

matchmaker

I used to live in Shetland and had three AWD cars during my time there - a Cavalier 4x4, a Granada Scorpio 4x4 and a Subaru L-series 1.8GL estate/

The Cav had standard rubber all round - never got stuck

The Granada had winter tyres all round - never got stuck

The L-series had winter tyres all round - overtook a stuck snowplough with it once

Also had a BMW 323i with studded winter tyres all round. Got stuck on a hill which the Cav would have romped up.

Had a Citroen BX TZD with chains - didn't get stuck, but a complete PITA to drive.

And a 3-litre 24v Senator auto with standard tyres. Brown boxers.

LG John

John, I raced my toyo'd scooby from a standing start on snow vs my mates rwd MG (the old one!) From 0-30 it was dead even. In short the AWD made little difference and struggled to compete with thin tyres on the MG. I'd say winter tyres on a RWD (especially if thinner) would be easily as surefooted as the scooby on F1s if not more so.

camk

agree 100%. Had a C4 996 on normal tyres and 523i on Winter Tyres. BMW could get up the hill to our house but 996 could not. The next year I put on winter tyres on the C4 and it got up the hill without a slither. Winter tyres make a huge difference in the snow, RWD with winter tyres will be better than 4WD on summer tyres. 4WD helps but the tyres are what counts, especially in the snow........

camk

sorry that is rubbish. Winter Tyres make a huge difference. Based on 5 years in Germany

Nevetas

my experiance was both cars on Summer tyres.

If both the scoob and the rwd were on winter tyres then the awd of the scoob would again have the advantage both on winter tyres.

john banks

I can generally manage the Scoob on summer tyres, although I only just managed once last year and was the only one that managed to get in, although most difficult was getting out of my street which is on a slight incline - ideally I don't want to have to close the surgery because of the snow as the overstretched ambulances would be further overwhelmed and then also get stuck. I wondered if the BMW on winter tyres would manage in similar situations. Sounds like I need to have the Scooby on the road this winter so I have the option.

camk

Depends on whether the RWD had traction control as well, 4WD with traction controland winter tyres is very good.

camk

I believe the BMW would be better based on experience. We drove down to Chamonix 2 seasons ago and came over a very snowy path following a scoob, on the downhill and uphill sections it did not look as stable and did not grip as well on uphill sections as the 523i I was driving with winter tyres.
Our C4 996 on summer tyres was definately not in the same league as our 523i with Winter tyres, especially at getting up hills. The BMW traction control is also a big factor as you just get into 1st and plant the throttle and its grinds its way up the hill.
C4 has much wider tyres than a Scoob, so that may be a factor.The winter tyres make a huge difference in lying snow, when its just icy they make a difference but its not as pronounced.

mark1234

TBH I'd far rather be driving the RWD car - even if the scoob beats it on traction (which I doubt), under cornering and braking 4wd is largely irrelevant. I'd rather have the snow tyres.

TopBanana

How far do you live from the surgery? Buy a quad bike

john banks

25 miles.

ozzy

I think ice or heavily compacted snow is your biggest enemy. I've tackled loads of single track, very steep roads in tons of snow and never had any great cause for concearn in my Impreza. When it's thick and fluffy there's a surprising amount of grip.

There's a difference between making it and making it in a reasonable time without taking risks.

If it were me I'd get an air gun and a spare set of skinny winter tyres and use the Scoob.

Given your choice I'd be inclined to take any car that has winter tyres fitted.

Stefan