K9VYN

VW Bora TDi Sport PD 130/150 or BMW E46 320d

well, after 6 & 1/2 years of much fun and heartache, i am just about forced into submission. i think i have to concede that Scoob and I are no longer made for each other and divorce is now imminent this is a thoroughly sad time for me (yes i know, its only a car) - having featured on the Impreza story DVD, enjoyed numerous meets and track events, plus and quite importantly making lots of great acquaintances and friends.. this is not so easy to deal with.

still, money talks and barring a sizeable lottery win over the course of the next few weeks Scooby will leave home for good! insuring and running 2 cars is taking its toll financially (especially considering one is an Impreza), so i am now looking towards 1 of the 2 aforementioned alternatives. the pre-requisites were as follows...

purchase price £4.5K - £7.5
good build quality
economy around 50mpg
good Power (130hp - 180hp)
good reliabilty

so i've ended up deciding on a diesel for my next vehicle purchase. now on paper the Bora & 320 are similar from a performance/economy perspective. but is the BMW worth the extra loot (approx +£500 only over a Bora PD 150). i am not too familar with equipment levels and general experience of either car.

so if anyone has had experience of either or both of the above alternatives, please post your opinions/preferences or simply use the pole to indicate your preference.

Thanks in advance

Brendan Hughes

No experience.

As you haven't specified driver involvement, then probably the VW...

Where did I just read (here) about BMW turbo problems?

Ah, here - http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showpost....2&postcount=10

K9VYN

cheers Brendan,

yeah i have been advised by a colleague that has had several BM 3's over the years to look at a 2001 onwards. he didn't mention turbo problems but said the later engine was better - that could be what he meant.

he wasn't so complimentary on the Bora he drove, but then he also previously owned a Scooby and now owns an E46 M3, so there may be some unintentional bias there!

Jamo

iTrader: (23)

it would be bmw out of those two for me. I used to own an e36 m3 evo, fantastic piece of kit. the only downside for me was the fact it was crap on ice/snow with rear wheel drive and the massive 18" wheels. living in derbyshire it was bound to hit some sooner or later, and it did!! straight through a wall. oops!

FirebirdUK

I've just gone for a Bora TDI 130 Highline - from an STi 8...

The Bora obviously doesn't compare to the STi in terms of handling - steering feels too light, you can't go round corners as quick. The upside is the car feels more solid (feels quality when you shut the doors, etc.) and for me, I'm now using half a tank of diesel a week to and from work as opposed to the 3 tanks I was using...

I wouldn't go for the BM - you know the sort of people that drive them (bankers - or words to that effect) :P

(EDIT - not having a go at shaggy, just the majority of BM drivers who think they own the road because they have a "prestigous" badge on their car...)

K9VYN

i can't ignore the BM for that reason - i own a Scoob remember and the image is fading fast, but i'd keep it if i could afford to.

the diesel fuel is the biggest bonus as i also commute further than i can afford to run Scooby alone (hence also owning the Rover). main thing i'm interested in is if i am losing Scoob a still want something with a bit of mid range wallop as well as good economy, and it should handle well as i rarely slow for corners

Remster

I've just bought an Audi A4 Avant TDi 130 Sport. It was a little over your budget (£11k '03 car) but it is a superb vehicle. I went through the whole BMW diesel thing but couldn't justify the extra premium and thought the image problem would get to me. Quality wise, the Audi is in a different league to other VAG stablemates. I have owned VW Golf & Seat Leon Cupra R which feel so flimsy in comparison. Although the Audi steering IS a little un-comunicative, it still hussles along nicely and at 50+mpg!! Might get a re-map done to take it upto 180Bhp & 300lb/ft.

Mikey Ace

iTrader: (1)

u may wish to consider the depreciation of the car.... the BM may well hold up better in a few years as far as that gose - maybe "which?" have some details on this....

I think the BM would be much more fun... but you really shouldn't ignore the Audi A4 either - a great car, a little dull (but then the Bora is too, really), but as with the VW it's built well.... probably better actually. We've an A4 avant as a company motor - it's magic, not a head turner, but a seriously easy relaxing car to drive and you get out after several undred miles/hours feeling good.... gr8 cars.

Mikey

NotoriousREV

I've just bought a Bora Sport. Let's be honest, it's boring but it does everything "OK". I found the steering actually feels a bit weightier and "nicer" than my MY01 WRX but there's too much body roll and not enough grip compared to the Scooby (no shock there )

I went for the Bora because I wanted a car with the PD130 motor as I feel that it's the best balance between power/economy/chipability and it's already booked in for a remap at Jabba The Bora is far cheaper than any other PD130 engined car including the SEAT Ibiza. I paid £7500 for a 51 plate with 46k in mint condition and full VW service history.

But it's not exciting. At all.

chrome

sad to see Kev.
I'm in the same boat mate.


Just trying to find a decent alternative.

PMSL to see on the BMW forums that the <01 cars suffer from bloody MAF failures!! and the turbos have a habit of dying .... ARGH

Dave uk blue mica

kev i've recently done the same thing, my impreza is gone and i've now got a golf gt tdi 130, my impreza was costing stupid money to own/run so it had to go, modern diesels have very good performance and excellent fuel economy, i'm pleased with mine anyway.

carl

I have the BMW 320Cd (well it's the wife's actually) and you will be lucky to get 50mpg. We're averaging around 40mpg, mostly short trips but with the occasional long run. It's not a particularly light car (~1500kg) and runs on fat tyres (more rolling resistance).

johnfelstead

I am running a Bora TDi 110 sport at the moment Kev, it's a V plated one owner car with FSH with 96K miles when i bought it (now 107K), i paid £2600 for it, bargain of the centuary. Thats the trade in price for one of these, you get a lot of car for the money IMHO. The sport version is worth going for as it has a nicer interior and handles better, i just replaced the rear shocks for some sachs genuine OEM fitment new ones for £60, it's proving to be a very cheap car to run. Average fuel consumption is 51MPG acording to the trip computer, thats cruising at 80MPH every day, tends to drop to about 45MPG if you rag it.

Handling wise i think its pretty good, it does what you expect it to do and isnt an understeering pig considering it has a heavy diesel lump up front, obviously its no scoob, but its got a good enough balance to carry good speed cross country. The engine is much better than some other TDi's i've been in, the later ones will be better still.

It doesnt apear to be as popular a car as the Golf, which suits me fine as the prices are far more sensible, personally i think its a better car with the boot, its comfy for long journeys too, i comute 130 miles a day in the thing and its been perfect so far for this. Insurance is dirt cheap too, cost's about £300 a year for me, when my RA was costing almost £2K!

I cant comment on the 320D, the 330D is a cracking car though, but for a comute type car i couldnt justify the extra expense, i plan on using the Bora as a comute and tow car for something a bit more fun on track when i get a few pennies together.

(ps. it had a MAF failure at 70K miles, they use the same crap MAF as the MY99 Impreza on the TDi 110 so i'll be swapping that at the 130K miles as a service item)

logiclee

I'll miss seeing you driving through Mansfield Kev.

For your price Kev you are going to be looking at a very high milage 320 150bhp and more likely an old 115/130bhp 320.

To be honest I'd go VAG, the old BM unit is now where near as strong or economical as a VAG PD130 and it isn't as tunable either.

Cheers
Lee

K9VYN

cheers for all the responses so far guys!

Lee, John, Brad - yeah it'll be sad to see it go if indeed i do let it go. i'm 95% convinced that it will go, despite mates trying to persuade me to garage it for the winter and give myself time to think it over carefully.

Audi A4 is also a consideration, although i don't know if i could stretch to the latest Shape (preferred). if i'm gonna spend that sorta money i may as well go for the BMW 330d for the performance, although again it'd have a fair mileage on the clock.

Bora certainly seems like a good option as a stop gap car for a couple of years - i just need to be happy in what i am in.

Thanks again,

Kevin

K9VYN

Lee,

the £7.5K upper limit is flexible... i reckon i could stretch as high as £10K for the right car (and i have seen 80K+ mileage 150hp 320ds around for about £8.5K - so not astronomical mileage). but assuming i'd want to do some minor mods, i'd like to leave a grand or two spare, just in case.

cheers,

K

chrome

ditto Kev.

Dales2

got a 320cd - done 64k miles in it in 21 months.

Turbo went at 60k (actually the electronic actuator went, but it is all part of one unit so you have to replace the lot). Other than that it is a superb car - much more grown up than the golf/bora (we have a number of these at work so I can compare directly).

BMW = refined, smooth power delivery
VW = more clattery, turbo comes in much earlier and with more of a bang, runs out of steam much earlier in rev range. However, subjectively feels quicker although isn't in the figures?

For handling / driver enjoyment to me there is no comparison, BMW wins hands down.

K9VYN

Dales2,

Cheers for an informative post. i prefer the BMs from an aesthectic perspective and certainly would lean that way for a car i'b de living with for the next few years - i think the Bora shape will probably age quicker.

if your car is a 320cd i'm assuming its the 150hp engine. if it is the BM i'd prefer a coupe but certainy can't afford to stretch pennies that far. the turbo problem is a slight concern as a few people have mentioned it.

i guess when you consider what i've thrown at Scoob over the years and a similar mileage its a drop in the ocean (depending on the cost of the turbo) - plus i would probably pay for a warranty, which would hopefully cover that.

thanks again for your post,

Kevin

ps.. what sort of range do you get out of a full tank?

Alas

Hi there
Understand peoples worries about the turbo in the BMW but lot of it comes from people who do not cool down the cars. I've got a 328 BM at the minute after 3 scoobs and really like it. Speaking to the independent garage owner I use as I was thinking of changing to a >01 320d myself and he said that the turbo was more likely to go on a car that was driven by someone who did not understand how to cool it down. If the turbo was in good nick when you get the car it will be fine. Don't know anything about the Bora I'm afraid but suffice to say I can't see me changing from BMW now I have had one. Nuff said.
Alas

K9VYN

Alas,

funnily enough that is a consideration i had. i imagine some people don't think of a diesel turbo as a 'turbo', but more as just a diesel. even in my Rover 414 i let the engine warm up fully before 'giving it some' and strangley always find myself sat in it with the engine running for a short while at the end of journeys.

cheers,

K

chrome

surely you know enough people to sort out an aftermarket turbo?
td05/06?

Brendan Hughes

You've got me worried now - that includes us

No problem with daily driving, we have slow streets on the approach to our house, but there could be a problem at motorway services etc...

vaughant

Get the BM fella. I`ve had at least 4 BM`s now various ages and mileages and their fantastic cars. My 328i cabby has covered at least 60k (138k now)miles since we`ve owned it (3.5 years), has never let me down, still pulls as well as when I first drove it, still does nearly 30mpg and my previous car was a Sapphire Cossie, so i know all about poor economy! From reading your posts i think your mind is already made up on the BM and if your after an 80k+ miler there`s a good chance the turbo will have been done already, i must stress with BM`s in particular, GET AN FSH, even if the miles are a bit higher, or it will seriously hit your residual`s. I`ve had MK1/2/3 Golf Gti`s and the MK3 would have a podium finish in the crappest car i`ve ever owned category ( i`ve had at least 50!!)slow,boring, unreliable and badly built. After all, the Bora nearly sums it up in it`s title, it`s just someone put an A on the end,instead of an E!!!

K9VYN

nice post , and yes the BM is what i'd prefer - just wanted to make a well informed decision as to whether its worth the extra dollar. good point re the turbo though, and yeah i'd be looking for full dealer service history on whatever i bought.

marty01_uk

We had a bora and as the name sugests they are exactly that. 3 series Bm's are now more common than mondeos, i would look at getting the audi a4 tdi

K9VYN

the late 2.0TDis are nice (i like em, followed on into work this morning), but somewhat out of my price range me thinks. plus i think A4s are pretty common too. commonality is not an issue though, i drive a Scoob and a Rover 400 remember i just want something that looks well, goes well, is econmical and reliable.

Cheers