Jap2Scrap

Does anybody know if a Xsara VTS engine (167bhp) will drop under ths bonnet of a Saxo? Thinking of this as a realistic alternative to the £5k supercharger kit.

It's either that or sell up and I'm starting to get attached to the old dog

I don't expect anyone knows on here but the morons on saxosports (90% of the posters) wouldn't know unless Max Power had featured it.

r3ry m

yes mate it will go in.was thinking about doing this to my 106.go to www.ecosse-peugeot.co.uk the 306 gti-6 is they same engine incase u didnt know.consider the 206 gti 180 aswell mate.i bit harder to fit thought

talizman

iTrader: (1)

The engine will go in, but it is widely recognised as one of the LEAST cost effective mods on the Saxo.

The 2.0L VTS engine is a good bit "taller" than the 1.6 lump so doesn't sit straight in. It has to be mounted at an angle and the amount of work involved, compared with the relatively little power gains (47 bhp) is not really worth it.

The most cost effective mod is a turbo conversion which are widely available and can be bolted straight on with no need for uprated internals. This coupled with a free flow exhaust and cams puts you in the 180bhp territory with scope for more

Jap2Scrap

Cheers mate!

I take it 99% of the Saxo VTS and 106 GTi electronics are the same (AFAIK only the gearbox was different at all), that'd make any Pug info very relevant. 4 months ago I put the Saxo on the market but since then she's had a new clutch, cambelt, service, brakes, tyres on the way and a full respray (due to vandalism) so it's like driving a brand new motor and it'd be heartbreaking to sell for another 'used' motor. This seems like something I'd like to do just to make it more motorway friendly as well as giving me a bit more grunt to surprise even more cars it shouldn't. I also do a fair few Mway miles and I wince looking at the rev counter showing over 4,500 rpm to do under 90mph so some more horses might just help there

Jap2Scrap

Got any info or links for this mod mate?

matt85

You only get Max Power answers if you post it in General. Post it in Engines for the correct answer. To be fair, what they dont know about Saxo's and Citroen engines in general isnt worth knowing.

Even so, i'll tell you now that it doesnt work. Any performance gains that you will get from possibly shoehorning it in (if it even will fit, which i dont think it will), will be offset by crap handling and mega understeer. Im not even sure it will fit no matter how much money you threw at it. If it worked everyone would do it and to the best of my knowledge there isnt a SINGLE Xsara VTS engined Saxo on that site. Unless you fancied breaking the mould with a rear-engined Saxo??

F**k the money, supercharge it. You know you want to

Edit- www.gmcmotorsport.co.uk/com are good and knowledgeable for all things Saxo. Others as well, have a look on the links at ssc.com

Jap2Scrap

Three sort of contradicting answers in three posts, not bad

I figured it wouldn't be a piece of p!ss as I've never heard of one being done but hoped it would be feasible. I think the SC kit is extortionately priced but if there's a turbo kit that's a fairer price I'd go that way. I was hoping the Xsara lump might just be a bored out Sax lump but who was I kidding

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Sorry mate, nothing specific, but just stick Saxo Turbo into Google....

I asked similar questions during my VTS days back in 1998!

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Jap2scrap,

To clarify.....

Yes, it will go in, just the same as a 5.7L V8 will go in if your pockets can handle it!

Having said that, no one actually does it, cos like I said above, its just too much hassle for such little gain.

The only way forward is forced induction, either by turbo or supercharger!

r3ry m

i wouldnt put forced air into a fairly soft engine.it will blow alot.106 and saxo are the same just the shell,interioe etc thats different.is your saxo a vtr or vts btw.theres a boy around my area with a supercharged vtr[3k to do] doesnt handle well.

Jap2Scrap

1998 lol

In '98 I was in a Supra turbo. I chopped in a Celica GT4 to get the Saxo, the idea being that I'd save fuel money, insurance and finally get out of the import loop I was in so that in the next year (from when I got it) I could chop that in for a reasonable px on something new. I chose the Saxo cos a) it would still mean some fun in my commuting and b) it was on the forecourt at a local importers so they gave me a good price on the GT4. Now I kinda like the Sax and like I said, it's had loads done and is totally mint. Someday it's going to be px'd but until then I want a little more oomph. I'm missing my turbo

I'll check it out like you said. I'm competent and could fit it myself so if it's affordable I see no reason not to give it a bash

talizman

iTrader: (1)

I disagree, the Citroen/Pug 1.6 16v lump is a great little engine and many thousand have been Supercharged with fantastic results.

GMC Motorsport in Scotland are experts in the field and its a big part of their business!

There are some links to turbo-ing and supercharging on here

r3ry m

aye thats who supercharged the vtr i was talking about.rumours are that its shutting done thought

Jap2Scrap

It's a VTS. A few breathing mods have made differences, but not all positive (bin K&N, it's sh!te ) It's been lowered on bilsteins and runs on 205 Yoko's on OZ 16's. Handles like it's on rails and will leave anything round the roundabouts on the A43 - anything it's been up against anyway. Of course, if they're in a bit of serious machinery, they all blast past me on the straights! That's what needs sorting

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Or....

You could simply get the cylinder head ported and polished, fit exhaust, induction, lumpy cams and ecu for 180bhp!

Throttle bodies onto this little lot and you'll be grinning from ear to ear!

Jap2Scrap

Food for thought guys, thanks

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Just saw that Cituning charge £2500 to supply the Turbo kit for VTS!!!

To hell with that! lol

Kev_turbo

The problerm with xsara engine is the inlets are on ther front and the exhaust on ther back. This is the opposite of the std vts engine making fitting a real nightmare as there is a real struggle getting the exhaust manifold to go though the angles required without having to cut major holes in the bulkhead.

As has been said, mod the hell out of the 16v instead. You will make more power in ther long run and it will handle better. The main benefit of the saxo is it is so light and balanced. If you put an extra 50kg in fron of the front wheels it will handle really really bad.

Kev

P.S. the majority of the above info is based on my modding days in a 205s and the saxo that I owned back in the days. No matter what you seemed to do to the 205 it just wouldn't handle like the saxo in standard trim

Jap2Scrap

Talizman - Yeah that's what I thought!!! Then I saw they were offering a "Stage 1 Engine Conversion" for a 'special offer' of £645. Thought, "Not bad," so had a look...

£200 worth of exhaust
£100 worth of Green filter
£? ECU tweak.

Bit expensive for a special offer so I decided value for money was unlikely with the turbo. BTW, it's £4000 if you want intercooling and 5th injector. The stuff that actually makes having a blower worthwhile!

Kev - I think I'll be going that way. Checking out cams, throttle bodies, etc. I know it's a slower process but it might just be more rewarding in the long run.

Rich D

iTrader: (12)

Have you seen the size of it!?

There's b*gger all room under the bonnet of a Xsara/306 (it's the GTi-6 lump) let alone under the bonnet of a 106/Saxo...




Without some serious mechanical re-working you will not get one under the bonnet!

lpski1

ellisg

They fit nice and snug under a 205 bonnet.

Worth asking around on 205 forum, they have both XU series (Gti-6) engine and TU series (106 16v) engines fitted so will know the difference between mounts and exhausts etc and how to swap them over.

G_Sleigh_STi

Check:

www.saxosportsclub.com -> Engine forum as its come up many times

I am trying to find the photo but i do know of a 2.0 throttle bodied Pug 106 and a throttle bodied/super charged saxo. Both running crazy power..

they be some where on here: www.fotki.com/G_Sleigh, there is over 40,000 photos it takes a while to go through! LOL