dba

so the K03s doesn't actually exist,its just a k03 with an improved actuator and compressor,and the most that can be achieved from a 180bhp Seat,Skoda,Golf whatever,with the improved post 2000 k03,is.............215bhp,and even a ko4 upgrade is a comparatively poor pound for buck upgrade,the most you will get is 220bhp.

so all those with dynos claiming much higher figs are sadly wrong,because this info has come courtesy of the manufacturers themselves,apparently,

if you want real power you need the full 225 engine,not just the k04

hawki

and where did you get this information
they are the sort of figures that used to be quoted a few years ago
tuning has moved on a bit since then although the K04-001 was always around 230 bhp THIS IS NOT THE K04 ON THE 225, its smaller

alot of the bigger figures for the K03S are based on its combination with the earlier AGU 1.8t With its larger port head

Forget the 225 - best combination is the earliest and strongest AGU 1.8T with Jabba's IHI conversion

RR

K03s remapped 1.8t will make 220bhp-240bhp mod dependent. K03 215-220bhp flat out to the max. But the maps will look diff on the dyno the k03s will have a better looking RR graph. k04 will make 230bhp. There are many diff k04's k03's etc. But lets face it bolt a gt28r garrett kit onto a golf for around £1500-2000 supplied and fitted and remapped and you will see 270bhp 270lb ft with ease. Thats 125bhp on top of stnd and about 125lbs ft extra of torque on stnd. What would it take in £'s to take a bug eye wrx from 215bhp-225bhp to 400-450bhp. More than a couple of grand i would think. So the 1.8t engines an pretty easy engine to tune. Then there's Jabba's 350bhp IHI conversion with supercar performance.

ScoobyJawa

Then you'll need to spend a fair bit on suspension to sort the sh!te chassis out (if the 1.8 is in a golf!)

RR

True. And some brakes, uprated clutch, poss an Lsd'd gearbox. But with enough £'s anything is possible i guess.

dba

sorry,you are wrong.The k03s does not exist,its just a k03 with a new compressor and actuator,then the marketing men called it the k03S.You CANNOT get 240bhp from a KO3S,this information is from the manufacturers themselves,BorgWarner Turbo Systems GmbH.The limit of the newer k03,or as called the 'k03S',is 215bhp,it simply will not go any higher.The manufacturers could be wrong of course,or the tuners could be spiking the output figures on the rollers,I know who I believe.

RR

So if the compressor is diff then its not a ko3. Your wrong here's the proof.

http://www.ecodetuning.com/Pictures/e05/e05blades.jpg

An E05 turbo uses a k03s impeller which has been slightly modified.

RR

I have had an E05 and a k03 and i now have a k03s turbo fitted on my Ibiza 1.8t 20v. It made 233bhp and 255lbs ft on Jabba rollers.

http://www.seatenthusiasts.co.uk/for...&highlight=e05

The e05 turbo went bang, its known not to be as reliable as a k03s turbo. I could be wrong but my info looks correct.

RR

Go to www.seatcupra.net and do a k03s search there's lots of power graphs to show that k03s's are consistently make 230bhp+ and are reliable with it as well. Its not all on one set of rollers numerours RR's and cars and owners.

dba

well Jabba must be right,lol

its upto you what you believe,the manufacturers state quite clearly that the uprated k03 will not go above 215.And I am sure you are aware its easy to spike the graphs on the day,even as high as 233,as yours is,doesn't mean it will produce that on a daily basis

if its a choice between tuners rr claims and the manufacturers tested limit I know who I believe,who you believe is upto you,if it makes you happy to believe you have 230 bhp from a turbo that can't go above 215 then fair enough,thats none of my business,i am only telling you what the manufacturer has said (in an email)

and i am not wrong about the k03,you have misread my postI said the k03 was upgraded with a new compressor,what you posted confirms this.All I have said is its not a new turbo made by anyone,merely an upgaded k03,called a k03S by someone in the VAG group

hawki

Borgwarner don't know what Tuners all over the world are doing
they also wouldn't know how the K03S performs on the AGU engine
Jabba have found it easier to extract power from the K03S with the AGU large port head than they do with the k04,

There figures are also probably based on reliabilty - which doesn't take into account the potential if you completely take the p*ss out the turbo which some tuners have done for cumstomers

I have Jabba's IHI conversion, i also have
Limited slip diff
Porsche 993 Turbo brakes
front mounted intercooler
Neuspeed rear anti roll bar + Koni/h&r suspension....easy to sort the Golf Chassis
braces front and rear
Aquimist water injection
racelogice variable slip TC
stock internals :-)

374 bhp.....street sleeper

igratton

Interesting thread...

we are currentlly looking at options for our XTR4 - 1.8T engine with K03 blower.

We believe anything over 220bhp is going to be pushing the little K03 a bit too hard. Be also are of the belief that the K04 will do about 260-270bhp.

As we've got the baby turbo I suspect we have to do the following.

1. Head gasket (haven't the 225s got a slightly changed compression ratio)
2. Injectors
3. Some new turbo/manifold combination

We've been looking at the US stuff - Garrett GT28QS and manifold which seems good value for money.

We've also thought about getting a K04 and injectors from a trashed 225 car

And we've also thought about having a manifold made up to take a Mitsu TD04/05 as they are as cheap as chips.

We have also been told the rods and pistons are strong enough for about 350bhp - so maybe we won't need to open it up.

TBO I reckon 300/300 is more than enough for our little car.

Anyone have any more suggestions ?

CraigH

You need to bear in mind BorgWarner will be quoting power directly linked with longevity (to Audi standards) , so it's not quite as black and white as you make out.

GT28 kit will make 300hp, £1500 all in with new injectors etc. Sod the K series

dba

no doubt and take the **** on the rollers it seems

interestingly,Borgwarner also say that there isn't a worthwhile performance gain using swapping the k04 in the AUG,hence why Jabba have stuck with the upgraded k03 I assume

RR

Look at my graph, the peak power is about 5100rpm, it still makes 200bhp+ t over 6500rpm. The k03s is about as hard as it can safely be pushed i reckon on my car. 208bhp per/ton is enough to keep most scoobs in check.

IhI, Gt28rs or Gt2817r is the way forward. 300bhp/ton+.

hawki

I wasn't actually refering to Jabba, there are lots of tuners all over the place producing higher figures than Borgwarner say - checkout vwvortex.com
APR
REVO
Upsolute
Giac
Digitec
etc etc
so your saying Tuners and rolling roads all over the world are producing bogus figures

igratton

we are well above 300/tonne - but then again our car weighs about as much as the heavy duty cup holders in the golf

hawki

Checkout AUGUST EVO track day car of the year feature
The Grinnall with the 1.8t has Jabba's IHI conversion producing 362 bhp (543 bhp/ton )

Everything you need to know about all the different 1.8T's is in the August edition of GOLF+ magazine, before you decide which 1.8t to use for your project get hold of a copy, it has a some surprising info in it

igratton

We already have the 1.8T motor in the car - as I say - its a K03 bolted on the manifold (not an S or anything else) so I'm guessing we have the baseline engine

RR

Garretts gt28r kit with some 440cc injectors, 3"maf housing, uprated fuel pump, large fmic, a decent dp and sports cat/exhaust and remap should get you uptowards the 290-300bhp region.

igratton

Current setup is like this - the IC is mounted in the side pod and is bigger than the pair of ICs on the cupra R.



some of the manifolds we've seen have the turbo on the top which is no good for us. The ones in the US look like they will be just fine.

hawki

surprisingly the earliest are the best
If the engine code is AGU you have the best 1.8T.... that includes the s3/tt version with the lower compression ratio
you have the larger port head - flows 30% more air than even a race prepared 16v and stronger con rods you also don't have the crappy coilpacks

mine has 115,000 miles on the clock, hasn't been touched internally and on its last RR produced 374bhp with water injection, previously procuced between
330 and 360 on different RR

dba

no,I am not saying anything,I am simply passing on what Borgwarner have said,(ok with some melodrama thrown in),they may of course be wrong,or they have an agenda,I don't know.The only opinion I have passed is to say I am more inclined to believe them than the tuners.They all have to make the same claims,its unlikely one tuner will say they can only get 215bhp when everyone else can get 230+,they will go out of business,so yes,I am implying there may be collectively some exaggeration amongst the tuning companies (not unheard of though is it?)

or the little upgraded K03Sport,as its called,may be better than the manufacturers claims.

Craig,

good point,although Borgwarners are saying the K03 won't go over 215 full stop,thats the way I understand it.

igratton

We have separate coil packs - so I'm guessing its a new(ish) rev of the engine ?

hawki

Cool !

my engine bay has no signs that its been touched apart from the induction kit
Some of the Big turbo kits have proved to be less than reliable - one well known tuner ended up dumping the Garatt/ATP based kit and bought a few IHI kits from Jabba for its customers..it also has a much smoother power delivery, it doesn't come in with a big bang,

igratton

I am beginning to think that the whole package (motor and tranny) have been lifted straight from the longitudal A4 package. Audi Holland helped Westfield with the installation IC design and pipework routing. They also did a custom loom for the car - the prototype mule was carrying most of the full dash in the back of the car to support all the LANC bus sensors and stuff. Not plugged a VAGCOM in yet and we have no Climate unit we can use to see basic diagnostics (I know the button combos from my PD 150 golf)

Out of interest - where is the std recirc bov mounted in a golf/tt/cupra etc etc

is it between the IC and throttle body or between the IC and turbo ?

NotoriousREV

Hang on a mo. 270bhp - 180bhp = 90bhp. 225bhp + 80bhp = 305bhp. I reckon for a couple of grand I could get 305bhp out of a bugeye, no problem.

RR

270bhp-155bhp=115bhp. So 225bhp+115bhp = 340bhp.

NotoriousREV

OK, so it still isn't 400-450 and I still reckon I can do it for £2k on a bugeye. After all, I'm running 290 from a classic WRX for £15

RR

270bhp on the Gt28r was me being very conservative TBO. 300bhp is there for sure. So your more or less x2 the stnd power bar 10bhp.To double a bug eyes bhp to 450bhp would cost some £'s i reckon. IE 155bhp to 300bhp (1.8t) Bugeye 225bhp to 450bhp. Its all speculation, but the 1.8t is cheap to take from 155bhp to 350bhp when you think what it would take for a bugeye to go from 225bhp (125% increase in power) to 506bhp.