Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Got one on 24 hr test drive (which means the 150 mile commute to London/back which is what I'm going to do in it).

I have my first impressions, what impressions/comments do others have concerning said vehicle? Useful rather than scathing would be handy

Its going to be doing 30k pa mainly on the M11/A11/A14

It has to be said that it'd would probably do the job absolutely fine but its not my first choice for a number of reasons. I can't go the 2.5 as the extra price is probably not worth it for cruise control driving @ 70mph.

Edcase

considering exactly the same car, so interested to hear your thoughts.

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

My thoughts after experience of others


Other considerations are

XC70 D5 SE (I want it to be good as I like the looks/interior but price may be too much)

V70 AWD D5 SE

A4 1.9TDi Avant Quattro Sport

RAV4 XT4 D4D

There's a range there, all diesel, all good load capacity, all AWD (of some sort) and of reasonable quality.

pbee

is this a company car ?

When i was test driving audi's from my groups. I found the 140 and 150 ps 2.0tdi units considerbly better than the 1.9tdi unit, they also meet euro class IV so do not suffer the 3% additional tax for diesels, they also perform beeter and return better mpg.
not sure if the do the avant quatro in 2.0 tdi guise though.

I alos have found Audis build quality to be exceptional which is better than the bmw's (all be it low end models) I looked at.

carl

If it's not a company car, then just get an old nail. Looks like I'm going to be going back to the 130-mile commute, so I'm looking for something around £1500.

No point in ragging the **** off any sort of decent car -- even a diesel -- as the depreciation will be horrendous.

chaarl

I went down this route...

Golf 130 TDi: Shockingly bad handling and ride: g/f got out the car feeling sick
Golf 150 Tdi: Ok it's better but how much for a Golf??!!
Passat TDi Sport: Surprisingly ok but uninvolving
A4 1.9 Tdi: Like the passat only better feel in the cabin, crap steering and horrible brakes

Then drove BMW 330D. That's more like it Engine is awesome for an oil burner, ride and handling spot on (for a car built for commuting) and build great. Bought one and love it. Engine even sounds nice If you can stretch to one give it a go. Tuning Box gives (standard uk) scoob beating power and torque for less than 500 quid

Edcase

which year 330d do you have??? I'd love the new one but well out of my price range

Dapster

Don't forget the Jag X Type 2.0d - better handling than the Audi I feel and torquey engine although it could do with more power. Looks good in Sports spec. Bit of an old gits image though...

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Not AWD/4WD though

MarkT

I have a 1.9tdi 130 sport avant
what do u need quattro for - there's not the power to exploit it, it weighs a lot, saps power etc etc - less mpg & costs more.
I pondered quattreo vs 2wd & went 2wd - we never get bad enough weather to make it neccessary.
Plus the Audi is never going to be that much fun to chuck around so just accept it - it's a very comfortable family/commuter car.
The 1.9 tdi 130 is probably the pick of the range - the 2.5s are heavier, thirstier etc as well.
I get 50mpg commuting to work!!
Makes up for how crap the Scoob is.
Cheers
Mark

imlach

Surely if you're looking for good load capacity, the A4 is a bit on the small side???
Has the V70 not got a much bigger load area?

Kev_turbo

Got an A4 1.9 TD red i that has covered 35k in the last 2 years giving an average of >50mpg. Don't buy the 2.5, it is basically ****e, less economy, same power, more issues. I would recommend one for motorway miles

The audi is a hell of a car for motorway cruising and eating miles up but not exceptional on the back roads (do they do a TDi sport??).

I had a 2.0 FSi deisel A3 for a test and the engine was amazing, much better than the 1.9 but less economical.

Looking at changing the audi in the near future, will definately look at the Jag diesel, do they do this in AWD?

Kev

Dapster

The 2.0 Jag is fwd only. There isn't a larger engine which is a crime as the car shouts for a big throaty 6 cyl a la BMW. I also tried the Merc E270 which was lovely and less lazy than I imagined so a C270 would be fun especially with the taughter set up of the Avantgarde model. That said, if you enjoy twisties, you can't go wrong with a Beemer - it's just everyones got one.

chiark

Test drove a mate's - we swapped for a couple of hours

The brakes have little feel and are still over-servo'd, which I couldn't believe. Audi have been saying that they've addressed this every bloody year...

The handling, even with the sport pack, was inert.

Like MarkT says, it's never going to be a sporty car, so I'd not waste the money on the sport pack as it makes comfortable handling slightly less comfortable and no more exciting. The Quattro aspect only comes in when conditions are bad, as it isn't all-time AWD. Useful in the heavy rain and snow, but not much use otherwise.

If you want practicality and excellent fuel economy, go for it. If you want a car to get enthusiastic about, it isn't one.

MattOz

Puff,

A mate at work has one and he bought it after opting out of the car scheme. He drove an X-Type 2.5 Sport beforehand. The Audi is better built, goes quicker, especially in the mid-range and does silly mpg. All said, it's a fantastic Motorway car and owning one will be a pleasurable experience.

My only Audi concern is with servicing costs. They always seem to be too high. If you can see beyone the apparent need for 4WD, then try a 320d touring or 330d touring as they have the 5yr or 75,000 mile service pack option. This is only £500 all in.

I'd have a 330d, but then I am now on my 3rd one, so I might be biased.

Matt

Scoobs_4ever

Its always the 1.9 tdi drivers sprouting the same bollocs about the 2.5tdi based Audis.

Yes , I do have a 2.5Tdi Quattro Sport which when standard had 180bhp (50bhp more than the 1.9 quattro equivalent. And torque, 2.5tdi standard is 370Nm, 60Nm more than the 1.9tdi. Weight the 2.5 is 90Kg more.

0 to 62mph, using Audis figures the 2.5 quattro is 1.7 secs quicker than the 1.9 quattro. AUdi quote 8.4secs for the 2.5 and 10.1 for the 1.9 version- the wife's A2 is quicker than that!!

Economy, well I get 47mpg on a regular basis.

Speak to AMD and you can add 35bhp and 40Nm of torque to the 2.5 quattro figures.- nice!

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Sport Pack is FOC with diesels

Or

SE

chaarl

Mines a 2001 and just misses out on the 6 speed box and 20 bhp hike.

I've driven a new one and certainly the new box suits it better and it's a bit more punchy, but I still like mine and am very happy with it.

Ppl who have been in my Impreza reckon the beemer feels quick, in a way it emulates the Impreza delivery being turbo charged so you get the kick in the back. It just runs out of revs a bit too quick sometimes...

I drive mine hard and it returns over 40mpg

Rumour has it BMW are bringing out a convertible version one day too

Puff, why do you need AWD? A RWD will cope with most stuff better than FWD unless you live on a huge slope and have snow all the time...

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

I do live in a slightly remote place with steepish hills that are prone to frost/ice and a lot of mud etc as its a rural area with lots of farming/sugar-beet etc. When it snows, it drifts over/onto the roads etc. Wifey nearly couldn't get up the hill in Jan/Feb but the scoob didn't have any probs & that wasn't particularly harsh snow either.

lordlucan

I have a 2002 A4 TDi Quattro Sport. Fantastic car, miles better than the Scoob, 45mpg and 202bhp does me nicely. It has an aggressive map hence the bhp figures. It feels more planted than the Scoob ever did and the build quality is second to none.
Bought it from a fellow Scoobynetter (SManning) who now wants it back !
The Quattro Sport is rare as hens teeth as well as the Quattro option was rather expensive. Mine also has a rather nice RS factory body kit fitted from new.
Would recommend the car to anyone.
J

Scoobs_4ever

Too true - I'm with LordLucan.
The A4 Quattro is a more civilsed car - I have the multi tronic version and I must admit it makes for a much more relaxing drive.

In the Scoob (best car all round car made) everyone goads/wants a race, e.g. drives right up your ar$e. In the Audi, climate on, Radio 4 on, 5 mins late for work, who cares, apart from ignoring the odd 1.9tdi or the rather common Golf who wants to say hello, I can't think of a more relaxing drive.

Just do it.

Once you've tasted 4 wheel drive, nothing else compares. Yes, its not as fast as the Scoob but who wants to arrive to work early!!!!

Audi's are solid, not Chav, reliable, good service, £300 for a major service what more do your want.

Jeff Wiltshire

Err....yes it is. All the B5 & B6 A4 Quattros are Torsen Diff not Haldex and are permenant 4WD.

lordlucan

Thx Jeff

Did think that was the case. I have a courtesy A4 Tdi today thats only 2wd, feels lighter but feels no where as sure footed on the road. Although it could just be me !! Additiionally the stability control is always kicking in.
4wd rocks !

Here is a debate : Is the Audi 4wd syetm better than the Scoobs AWD system, pros and cons please..

Thx
J

(who loves both Scoobs and Audis with the exception of the gay TT !!!! ha ha)

lordlucan

Appears its way better !!

1) Torsen differential - Audi Quattro system*
Being the master of 4-wheel drive, Audi always insists to use the most effective system despite regardless of price. Its Quattro 4WD system* uses a pure mechanical LSD, Torsen differential.
Torsen, means "torque-sensing", was invented by an American company calls Gleason Corporation. Its slip-limiting ability is implemented by cleverly using worm gears / worm wheel pair. This pair has a special characteristic: driving torque can be transfered from worm wheel to worm gear, but not reverse. Otherwise, they will be locked up. It is such characteristic that limit slip.

no pic!

The above picture explains how Torsen differential works. In normal cornering, i.e., no tyre slip in any wheel, Torsen differential provides the same function as a normal differential. The addition of worm wheel / worm gear pair does not affect speed difference between output shafts. For instance, if the car turns left, the driveshaft to right wheel runs faster than the differential housing, while the driveshaft to left wheel runs slower than the differential housing. The speed difference between left and right worm wheels can be exactly matched in the synchromesh gears. Note that the worm gears / worm wheels pair do not lock up because torque is transfered from worm wheels to worm gears.
When one of the wheels, say the right wheel, loses traction due to poor road surface or whatever reason, the worm gear / worm wheel pair get into effect. At the instant just before they become effective, one must know that by the basic differential theory no torque will be sent to the left wheel, which is with traction. Instead, all the torque will be sent to the spinning right wheel. Then, the fast-rotating right worm wheel will drive its worm gear, through the synchromesh and drive the left worm gear. Now, do you still remember the basic characteristic of worm gear / wheel pair ? Well, when worm gear drives worm wheel, they will be locked up. As a result, the left worm gear and right worm gear are actually locked together, thus wheels on both side will rotate at the same speed and get the car out of the lose of traction.

Characteristic of Torsen-equipped 4WD
Except the first generation Quattro system that appeared in the early Quattro coupe, most of the subsequent Quattro systems used Torsen differential in center and rear axles. This is rather expensive. However, Torsen-equipped 4WD has many advantages. First of all, its pure mechanical parts react almost instantly to tyre slip. Secondly, it provides linear lock-up characteristic. Thirdly, it is a strictly permanent 4WD system. In normal condition, torque split between front and rear wheels is 50:50 (other ratios are possible, depends on the pitch of worm gears).
Apart from Audi, few other car makers adopted Torsen LSD, mainly because of cost reason. Toyota's rally ace, Celica GT4 was one of the few exception. It used Torsen in the rear axle. This might be part of the reason why it was so expensive over competitors.
Advantage: Quick response, permanent 4WD
Disadvantage: Pricey, torque split not variable
Who use it ? All non-Golf-based Audi quattro models, Toyota Celica GT4, Hummer etc.

Note: * the "Quattro" mentioned here is the traditional Torsen system marketing in the name Quattro. That includes all Quattro models until the arrival of Audi TT (which uses the Haldex system). Since then the name Quattro becomes a marketing trade mark rather than indicating the actual mechanism. At the time of writing, all Audi Quattro models, excluding the Golf-based A3, S3 and TT, still employs the traditional Torsen system.

lordlucan

And Scoobs AWD

3) Viscous Coupling Differential Lock
While Torsen 4WD is too expensive, Viscous-Coupling LSD is part-time only, most 4WD cars, including the rally ace Celica GT4, Subaru Impreza, Mitsubishi Lancer and Ford Escort RS Cosworth adopted another kind of center differential - basically it has a regular center differential which distribute torque to front and rear under normal condition, an additional Viscous Coupling Differential Lock provides anti-slip function when needed.
Characteristic of this system
The Viscous-Coupling Differential Lock is virtually the same as what we have learned earlier, therefore it also has slight delay and non-linear characteristic. However, in reality this might not be as serious as we thought, otherwise it would have been impossible that all the top rally cars use it. Moreover, Viscous-Coupling Differential Lock system is lighter and cheaper than Torsen system, while having superior effectiveness over the part-time Viscous-Coupling LSD system.
Advantage: Good balance between price and effectiveness
Disadvantage: No special flaw
Who use it ? Lancia Delta Integrale (with Torsen in rear axle)
Ford Escort RS Cosworth (with Viscous-Coupling LSD in rear axle)
Mitsubishi Lancer GSR, 3000 GT VR4. (with Viscous-Coupling LSD in rear axle)
Subaru Impreza and Legacy manual versions (with Viscous-Coupling LSD in rear axle)
Toyota Celica GT4 (with Torsen in rear axle)
Bugatti EB110 (set to 70% rear bias)

chiark

Sorry for getting it wrong on the system - I have been misinformed, or more likely applied a little specific knowledge as a generic fact

It sounds like the Quattro system would be worthwhile given that Puff's in the middle of nowhere. I know from driving back from Pickering to Leeds on new year's eve / day with my then-3 month old son in the WRX and heavy snow that I would personally be going for quattro no matter what...

-=Buzz=-

As a company car driver who's dove over 60k in my 1999 A4 1.9TDi Avant, albeit an auto and not the sport, and fwd and not quatro I'll give you my opinion wether you like it or not

It's too small for a family car. I'm not massive, I'm 6 feet tall - and the seat has to go all the way back to be comfy, leaving no leg room - unless the new model is substantiall bigger then your kids will kick the back of the seat to death.

It handles well and goes better than a diesel auto with only 110bhp should.

As a car just for me to drive lots of miles it's comfy, doesn't clatter/rattle/knock etc. as some 80k cars do, and the bits and pieces all work as well as the day I first got into it. And the stereo is excellent - very important when I'm doing Hull-Glasgow-Hull etc.

I would LOVE a new one, if it's half as good as mine it will still feel great to drive in 3 or 4 years, of that I have no doubt. I'd rather get the A6 Avant though for the extra room, and of course 200bhp would be nice....

Jeff Wiltshire

As an owner of a B5 Quattro (OK its an S4 with 400BHP and not a TDibut the shell is the same) I would tend to agree on size. The rear seats are much to close to the front seats for comfort. If you want to carry 4 people and your bigger the 5'10" then you might want to look at the A6 TDi instead....

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

LOL @ Buzz

"I'm not massive"

Yeah - right