ChrisChennell

Wondering what peoples feelings were about the handling of this type of car - thinking of 205 gti, r5 gtt, saxo etc. I ask because today my boring runabout - a 1.1 r5 decided to let go on a corner and the damn thing was near sideways in an instant! With a bit of overcorrection, some fishtailing, straightening it out but having to use all of the road, then facing an oncoming lorry I survived but I cant help but feel it should have given me at least a little warning! it was just like *bam* from settled cornering to badly stepping out.

So how do people get used to such short wheel base cars going quickly through corners? just accept that they can bite hard and never push it or try and catch it when it does happen?

the reason it ended up out of shape today was a combination of wet unfamiliar roads, adverse camber and me judging the safe speed to take the corner by the speed of the car behind me (ie he hasnt slowed down more than i have, so it must be ok). Pilot error....

mn_angrybeats

Simple don't lift off or brake mid bend :-) Also sounds like you are going into an un familiar corner too fast, try slow in and then feed the power when exiting the corner.......

jaf01uk

As above but also be aware of when it is likely to do it and be ready to feed in a bit of opposite lock on the steering quickly if you feel the back going out, try it on deserted roundabouts VERY late at night in the wet by speeding up until the front starts to understeer and back off the gas and see what happens,
PS. I do not condone practicing skid correction on the public highway blah blah blah
Gary

LG John

I had the pleasure of driving a VTR last night and I forgot how easy they get sideways and how much fun it was It wasn't fun when the policeman pulled me over for arsing around though

ChrisChennell

I think i just carried too much speed into it. i certainly dont brake mid bend. or if i do, i put the wheels straight first! pilot error all the way

Famine

That would surely cause understeer (the front wheels plowing straight on and you going off the top of the curve) rather than oversteer (the rear wheels plowing straight on and you going off the inside of the curve).

Excess speed in FF cars causes understeer. Oversteer is caused by braking, or just lifting off the accelerator, mid bend (commonly termed "lift-off oversteer"). I destroyed a 1.1i Fiesta on Woodhead by being far too cautious on a corner - I decided it was too icy to take at 30mph and jumped off the accelerator. I didn't notice the oversteer as it really WAS icy, and I felt no weight transfer, and ended up driving sideways down the road and almost getting it back again until the front tow eye kissed the wall, and the rest was history.

Nearly did the same thing on a very moist roundabout a few months back, but the MX-3 has quicker steering and more power to drag itself out. And I had 3 empty lanes to play with


As with most cars, the key to driving these types of car is smooth transitions - a quick hop off the accelerator and the world turns sideways. But hey, we all make mistakes (often and repeatedly... )

BedHog

Oversteer would be hard, fwd cars would understeer, turn and nothing happens. Saying that I did completely lose the backend of an Escort Estate once due to new tyres front and virtually bald rear. Luckily it span 360 off an island but ended up in a side road parked as if I was just about to pullout!! FWD is scary, once it goes theres not a lot you can do....

LG John

Hot-hatches like the VTR/S are very easy to get lift off oversteer. You just need to lift off abruptly to induce it and then very light throttle and opposite lock to keep it under control

kammy

Im a rubbish driver, so correct me if this is wrong but, if the back end of a fwd car steps out,and you are in the correct gear/revs/power band, carnt you simply step heavily on the power, thus transferring (spg) the weight to the back of the car. This causes the back end to grip, and so with a little opposite lock your back into a linear motion again. I make this sound simple, and have seen the TOCA drivers do this alot but they have good set-up cars,wide tracks and high amounts of skill

jaf01uk

And 300 odd horsepower to break the traction at the front to allow the rear whees to have more grip than the fronts to straighten it up again,
Gary

LG John

It doesn't require much throttle at all in a well balanced car to straighten her up hence the term 'steering on the throttle' Usually a little stab of the gas is enough to prevent the rear ends momentum and thereafter gently unwinding the lock will have her slowly and sweetly come back round.

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

yes, indeed as soon as lift off oversteer happens, use corrective lock and get back on the gas. Its hard (in practise) to do though as your brain naturally doesn't want to press the accellerator when you've gone into a corner too fast...

CrisPDuk

Famine, properly set up fwd cars, i.e; French ones, some Hondas & early VWs do indeed oversteer when going to fast into corners, as the stiff rear anti-roll bar lightens the inside rear wheel, reducing rear grip & allowing it to swing round. This is what makes them so nimble & fun to drive.

This is as opposed to all Vauxhalls, most 80's/90's Fords & later VWs, which have a big fat anti-roll bar on the front to prevent it turning in sharply, upsetting the rear & causing the rep/**** behind the wheel from spinning off & suing the manufacturer a la early TT.

Strangely, Ford only recovered their reputation for building fun handling, affordable family cars when they stopped using Jackie Stewart to finalise the ride/handling development.

Diablo

jaf01uk

Ah, takes me back to the old R5 turbo days, wheels up in the air at mini roundabouts get some funny reactions from people,

ChrisChennell

Well. i dont know how you lot can handle it. I prefer a more forgiving longer wheel base car, be it front or rear wheel drive. If there is an anti roll bar on the back end of the 5 - mines only a 1.1 so i guess not, then I may have snapped it as the back ends been feeling pretty loose since sunday.

So im looking at a good old marcos.. how are these two linked? i dont know.