Top speed of deristricted E36 Bmw M3?
15 December 2003, 07:30 PM
#2
Are you talking about the pre-evo, 3litre rather than 3.2litre?
I would say theoretically you would be lucky to get 165.
The evo was a good bit quicker, I remember reading a review when it came out, restricted in top to 155 but one magazine hit 170 in 5th, whoops BMW must have forgotten to restrict 5th gear.
I would say theoretically you would be lucky to get 165.
The evo was a good bit quicker, I remember reading a review when it came out, restricted in top to 155 but one magazine hit 170 in 5th, whoops BMW must have forgotten to restrict 5th gear.
15 December 2003, 11:45 PM
#4
Scooby Regular
IIRC... the 6th Gear in the EVO was purely for cruising, and top speed was actually achieved in 5th!!
I could well be wrong, but I'm sure I read that somewhere...
Cheers,
Grant
I could well be wrong, but I'm sure I read that somewhere...
Cheers,
Grant
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16 December 2003, 12:55 PM
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ACS claim 174. something (cant quite remenber) for the evo version.
I heard of someone recording 172 via GPS on a de restricted one.
These cars are only at their best when your well over the legal limit.
WD
I heard of someone recording 172 via GPS on a de restricted one.
These cars are only at their best when your well over the legal limit.
WD
16 December 2003, 03:37 PM
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If I recall, in 6th my Evo shows an indicated 90'ish mph at 3500 rpm... so at redline its going to be 185ish, realistically about 175mph
[Edited by ajm - 12/16/2003 3:40:16 PM]
[Edited by ajm - 12/16/2003 3:40:16 PM]
16 December 2003, 07:16 PM
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I had just over 170 on mine when it was new. Felt rock steady and slowing down to 120 felt like you were goin so slow.
The fuel gauge seemed to go down at an alarming rate though. Make sure you have ZR rated tires as they will get very hot at these kind of speeds.
Phil
The fuel gauge seemed to go down at an alarming rate though. Make sure you have ZR rated tires as they will get very hot at these kind of speeds.
Phil
18 December 2003, 12:38 PM
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'ajm' on my M3 Evo the speed indicated is exactly 85mph @ 3000rpm (in sixth).
I don’t know what revs it could pull but with max power at 7400 I guess a pretty silly top speed is easily attainable.
WD Pro
I don’t know what revs it could pull but with max power at 7400 I guess a pretty silly top speed is easily attainable.
WD Pro
18 December 2003, 05:14 PM
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Yep - Geared for about 210 mph, but I guess 175 ish should be about the limit with standard power on the EVO (321 bhp). Wonder how much power you'd need to reach 200 mph? Maybe 450 bhp? Anyone got a fancy calculation to work that out based on the standard top speed?
[Edited by scoobysnacks - 12/18/2003 5:16:13 PM]
[Edited by scoobysnacks - 12/18/2003 5:16:13 PM]
18 December 2003, 05:47 PM
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Autocar quoted a tuner who had managed to derestrict a factory fresh M5 and got 190+ on the autobahn. 5 mins of this and the engine went pop.
I'd imagine a tyre letting go at anything near these speeds means they will be scraping you off the tarmac half a mile down the road.
I'd imagine a tyre letting go at anything near these speeds means they will be scraping you off the tarmac half a mile down the road.
21 December 2003, 11:58 PM
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hmmm....interesting points these...
my carlton gsi had the needle going off the 160 mph on the dash and it was doin 152.
i know for sure that lotus carlton speedos air on the side of hopeful.
an indicated 180 is probably about 166 ish i would have thought.
i reckon you need closer to 600bhp to push an m3 up to 200 mph.i vaguely remember someone telling me that the air pressure over 180mph is quadrupled or something along those lines (i never was good at physics) so the amount of bhp needed to go from 180 to 200 is far more than one would need to go from say 50 to 130 cos the air pressure doesnt double it is far more than that....
take the lc for example...its geared to do 286 in 6th gear...but with 376 bhp on tap (some actually came out with more than 400) it can't physically push its brick like shape from its top speed in 5th (anywhere between 176 and 186 take yer pick) to that last bit to 200mph...it would need probably another couple of hundred bhp by which time u'd have killed it...
bein that the m3 is also a straight six i'd say it was similar.
my carlton gsi had the needle going off the 160 mph on the dash and it was doin 152.
i know for sure that lotus carlton speedos air on the side of hopeful.
an indicated 180 is probably about 166 ish i would have thought.
i reckon you need closer to 600bhp to push an m3 up to 200 mph.i vaguely remember someone telling me that the air pressure over 180mph is quadrupled or something along those lines (i never was good at physics) so the amount of bhp needed to go from 180 to 200 is far more than one would need to go from say 50 to 130 cos the air pressure doesnt double it is far more than that....
take the lc for example...its geared to do 286 in 6th gear...but with 376 bhp on tap (some actually came out with more than 400) it can't physically push its brick like shape from its top speed in 5th (anywhere between 176 and 186 take yer pick) to that last bit to 200mph...it would need probably another couple of hundred bhp by which time u'd have killed it...
bein that the m3 is also a straight six i'd say it was similar.
27 December 2003, 12:01 PM
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Bearing in mind the M3 EVO can reach about 175 mph with 321 bhp and could theoretically reach 210 mph at 7500 rpm, how much power would you'd need to reach 200 mph? Anyone know a good way of calcuating this - even if it's not an exact science because of all the other variables?
28 December 2003, 06:18 PM
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scoobysnacks - at those sorts of speeds you need massive power hikes just to get a few extra mph.
i.e. from 175->200mph
200/175 = 1.14
1.14^3 = 1.49 = 49% power increase for 25mph speed gain!
so you would need nearly 480 hp. all a very rough guide though.
steven
i.e. from 175->200mph
200/175 = 1.14
1.14^3 = 1.49 = 49% power increase for 25mph speed gain!
so you would need nearly 480 hp. all a very rough guide though.
steven
29 December 2003, 03:24 PM
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i agree with midget...he explains it far better than i could.
in answer to an earlier question the top speed of the LC (which is in 5th and not 6th) is between 176 and 182 mph.... no one is completely sure on this one...
6th is geared to 286mph ...however the car itself just doesnt have the aerodynamics or the power to push it that little bit further...it would prolly need a further 200bhp..a chip could get you this but it kills the engines ..and lets be frank..is 376 to 420 bhp and 419 lb/ft torque not enough for you in a 4 seater saloon with a huge boot?
the car is fine the way it is..the only thing i would change its parts supply and reliability..thats it!
in answer to an earlier question the top speed of the LC (which is in 5th and not 6th) is between 176 and 182 mph.... no one is completely sure on this one...
6th is geared to 286mph ...however the car itself just doesnt have the aerodynamics or the power to push it that little bit further...it would prolly need a further 200bhp..a chip could get you this but it kills the engines ..and lets be frank..is 376 to 420 bhp and 419 lb/ft torque not enough for you in a 4 seater saloon with a huge boot?
the car is fine the way it is..the only thing i would change its parts supply and reliability..thats it!
29 December 2003, 05:11 PM
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Just found info on a digitec modified M Coupe
(which has the M3 Evo engine - the BMW M3 S52 6 cylinder engine) they say
the top speed possible with some rather expensive mods (£20k+) is
181mph!!!!!!!!
Digi-Tec M Coupe - Ariel Atom
==================
This car is based on a 1999 M Coupe, which normally has 321 bhp. In its
modified state, the motor produces a healthy 385 bhp at 8000 rpm with 295
lb-ft (400Nm) of torque between 3900 and 7200 rpm. Digi-Tec founder, Michael
Pollmuller, explained how his engineers had achieved these numbers.
"We start with a special airbox system and free-flow air-cleaner. Then we
remove the restriction of the factory airflow meter, substituting our Alpha
N system, which uses the parameters of throttle position, Lambda, ignition
and engine revs. It took us a whole year to develop the Alpha N system, but
the result is a lot more power and torque and added smoothness."
This engine also benefits from a pair of high-lift cams, stronger valve
springs, free-flow exhaust manifold, stainless-steel sports exhaust,
100-cell free-flow catalytic converter and finally, the reprogrammed ECU.
"The Siemens-made ECU also controls the VANOS system, and you can alter all
the other parameters and delete the top-speed limiter, just as our
competitors did. We realized they didn't change the information for the
VANOS, so when the engine reaches 7400 rpm at 168 mph, the VANOS closes down
and the car cannot go any faster, even downhill. Because we modify the VANOS
controls as well, the system continues working up to the 8000-rpm limit,
allowing our car to reach 179 mph."
Helping the motor to spin more freely is a Group A flywheel, which tips the
scales a whopping 30-percent lighter than stock. The total weight of the
beefed-up twin-plate clutch and flywheel is now just 8.5kg (18.7 lb), so the
motor revs like a motorbike!
The suspension is a combination of H&R springs and Bilstein dampers. The
system is height adjustable with a maximum drop of 50mm from standard,
although you could not sensibly run on the street with such a low ride
height. "We also offer a Nuerburgring suspension kit." The suspension top
mounts are solid, with a suspension tower brace in front.
Brembo makes the uprated brakes, which use 325- and 304mm vented discs,
front and rear, clamped by big four-pot calipers. Pad material is Pagid RS14
ceramic alloy in front and Pagid Blue at the rear. There is also an on/off
switch for the ABS system. BBS alloy wheels, 8.5J and 10.5Jx18-in. are shod
with 225/40ZR18 and 265/35ZR18 tires for street use and 255/35ZR18 and
285/30ZR18 in serious track trim.
The lowered ride height and big wheels and spoilers served to emphasize the
brutal appearance of the standard car. The M Coupe has a pretty substantial
front air dam and spoilers out of the box, and Digi-Tec augments the
downforce with a pair of spoiler lips made from either carbon or GRP.
Alternatively, you can buy a complete, new lightweight bumper/spoiler
section with the same look, but molded in one piece from either carbon or
GRP. The front wings and doors are also made from carbon and the car weighs
1,220kg (2,689 lb), 160kg (352 lb) less than Euro stock.
The aerodynamics of the car are drastically altered by the new spoilers.
"The diffuser between the exhausts works really well," Michael said. "Apart
from creating downforce at speed, the rear window now stays clear in the
rain on the move."
The spectacular looking rear wing on the roof is three-position adjustable
and creates further downforce. "You really need it at the Nuerburgring,"
said Michael. "There is one fast sweeper which you can take flat in fourth
at over 140 mph with the wing in the high position. Without it, you will be
sideways at 120 mph. Of course, the wing creates drag, slicing 19 mph off
the top speed.
Digi-Tec offers three rear differentials for the M Coupe, short, medium and
long, with an oil cooler in the rear diffuser for track work. With the
tallest differential, 0 to 60 mph takes 4.4 sec., and top speed is 181 mph.
On slicks with the shortest differential, it will get to 60 mph in 3.9 sec.
with top speed an adequate 146 mph.
Digi-Tec has shown just how much potential there is in the M Coupe with a
devastatingly fast road car that can produce near racecar lap times on the
track.
Cheers
Stuart
(which has the M3 Evo engine - the BMW M3 S52 6 cylinder engine) they say
the top speed possible with some rather expensive mods (£20k+) is
181mph!!!!!!!!
Digi-Tec M Coupe - Ariel Atom
==================
This car is based on a 1999 M Coupe, which normally has 321 bhp. In its
modified state, the motor produces a healthy 385 bhp at 8000 rpm with 295
lb-ft (400Nm) of torque between 3900 and 7200 rpm. Digi-Tec founder, Michael
Pollmuller, explained how his engineers had achieved these numbers.
"We start with a special airbox system and free-flow air-cleaner. Then we
remove the restriction of the factory airflow meter, substituting our Alpha
N system, which uses the parameters of throttle position, Lambda, ignition
and engine revs. It took us a whole year to develop the Alpha N system, but
the result is a lot more power and torque and added smoothness."
This engine also benefits from a pair of high-lift cams, stronger valve
springs, free-flow exhaust manifold, stainless-steel sports exhaust,
100-cell free-flow catalytic converter and finally, the reprogrammed ECU.
"The Siemens-made ECU also controls the VANOS system, and you can alter all
the other parameters and delete the top-speed limiter, just as our
competitors did. We realized they didn't change the information for the
VANOS, so when the engine reaches 7400 rpm at 168 mph, the VANOS closes down
and the car cannot go any faster, even downhill. Because we modify the VANOS
controls as well, the system continues working up to the 8000-rpm limit,
allowing our car to reach 179 mph."
Helping the motor to spin more freely is a Group A flywheel, which tips the
scales a whopping 30-percent lighter than stock. The total weight of the
beefed-up twin-plate clutch and flywheel is now just 8.5kg (18.7 lb), so the
motor revs like a motorbike!
The suspension is a combination of H&R springs and Bilstein dampers. The
system is height adjustable with a maximum drop of 50mm from standard,
although you could not sensibly run on the street with such a low ride
height. "We also offer a Nuerburgring suspension kit." The suspension top
mounts are solid, with a suspension tower brace in front.
Brembo makes the uprated brakes, which use 325- and 304mm vented discs,
front and rear, clamped by big four-pot calipers. Pad material is Pagid RS14
ceramic alloy in front and Pagid Blue at the rear. There is also an on/off
switch for the ABS system. BBS alloy wheels, 8.5J and 10.5Jx18-in. are shod
with 225/40ZR18 and 265/35ZR18 tires for street use and 255/35ZR18 and
285/30ZR18 in serious track trim.
The lowered ride height and big wheels and spoilers served to emphasize the
brutal appearance of the standard car. The M Coupe has a pretty substantial
front air dam and spoilers out of the box, and Digi-Tec augments the
downforce with a pair of spoiler lips made from either carbon or GRP.
Alternatively, you can buy a complete, new lightweight bumper/spoiler
section with the same look, but molded in one piece from either carbon or
GRP. The front wings and doors are also made from carbon and the car weighs
1,220kg (2,689 lb), 160kg (352 lb) less than Euro stock.
The aerodynamics of the car are drastically altered by the new spoilers.
"The diffuser between the exhausts works really well," Michael said. "Apart
from creating downforce at speed, the rear window now stays clear in the
rain on the move."
The spectacular looking rear wing on the roof is three-position adjustable
and creates further downforce. "You really need it at the Nuerburgring,"
said Michael. "There is one fast sweeper which you can take flat in fourth
at over 140 mph with the wing in the high position. Without it, you will be
sideways at 120 mph. Of course, the wing creates drag, slicing 19 mph off
the top speed.
Digi-Tec offers three rear differentials for the M Coupe, short, medium and
long, with an oil cooler in the rear diffuser for track work. With the
tallest differential, 0 to 60 mph takes 4.4 sec., and top speed is 181 mph.
On slicks with the shortest differential, it will get to 60 mph in 3.9 sec.
with top speed an adequate 146 mph.
Digi-Tec has shown just how much potential there is in the M Coupe with a
devastatingly fast road car that can produce near racecar lap times on the
track.
Cheers
Stuart
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