mozzaITA

Hi all, just wondering on youre opinions for the above cars.... my yuonger brother is just about to change his car and wants one of them.....

The pug reminds me when i used to own a nova gsi and i would thick it would be similar but with added power..!!!

I have no experiance of the Gt but heard they can be costly if/when they go wrong.

Any ideas??? alos what are the stats???

Thank Q

Mozz

RS Grant

My mate has got a mildly modified 106GTi, lowered, decent set of tyres, induction and exhaust...

It handles superbly, and as a country road tool is it very impressive because its combined with a decent 120bhp as standard in a tiny wee car which gives a fair bit of poke.

No experience of Punto GT's but I hear that they handle like dog poo as standard and that the 1.4 is stressed should you start to modifying it past the normal levels...

Cheers,
Grant

Student Phil

106 looks better, handles better, is better built and similar performance. punto is cheaper though. despite this, i would go for a 106 every single time!

Rich and Mini

I've got a Saxo VTS,, so basically the same car as the 106 only faster It handles very well, much better than any Punto, which are awful, avoid at all costs unless you must have a turbo/big running costs/torque steer. 106 is realistically just as quick as a Punto GT anyway, they hold their value better, are more reliable and handle better while looking much better! Bit of a no brainer. IMHO of course

Rich

mozzaITA

The VTS is a no-no im affriad, my bro is 20 and plans on keeping the car maybe 2 years and VTS's are mainly owned (in my area) by 18-19 year olds..... there are hardly any 106 gti's or Punto GT around here whereas there are hundreds vtr/vts around in hertfordshire.

LG John

I'd get the 106 GTI but don't let him go round thinking he's a better cut of beef than the VTS boys. The cars are pretty much the same - like it or not! The only reason there are so many more VTS is that Citroen targeted that age group with their marketing and pricing. If you could get the same deals on the pug there would be as many if not more (hot-hatch heritage) of them.

LG John

One thing I've never been able to understand is why the VTS is so massively popular in England but not so much so in scotland? I've seem about (and I PROMISE this is no joke) about 3 in the last month and in that time I've seen 50+ scooby's and 100+ VTRs

I thought the VTS was rare as hell until I saw about 5 in as many minutes in Newcastle What's that all about? Is insurance cheaper in England!!

Not trying to change the thread topic its just that the 106 GTI v VTS numbers was raised!

[Edited by Saxo Boy - 8/26/2003 9:06:07 PM]

Rich and Mini

I'm 18

I see hardly any VTSs round here, and the people I know with VTSs are mainly 20+, simply 'coz the insurance is so high on a VTS for young lads. I pay £2k fully comp. The VTS is group 14, the GTi is 13.

There's more GTis round here than VTSs lol.

The GTi is booked at 0-60 in 8.1 and 0-100 in 23 I *think*, slightly slower than the VTS book times, and the GTi doesn't handle quite so well compared to VTS, 'coz the mk2 VTS has 15s on 195/45s as opposed to the GTi's 14s.

Rich

ap_coupe

Well i would say the punto gt.he will not be disapointed with the preformance. As for the handeling.You can sort that out no prob.Plus saxos and 106 are as common as muck

MooseRacer

the GTi doesn't handle quite so well compared to VTS


That is highly debatable Rich

Rich and Mini

I wouldn't debate it



Rich

RS Grant

Someone will!!

Cheers,
Grant

LG John

On paper the VTS is fractionally faster but as has been proven countless times on the road they are inseperable. The 8.1 stat for the GTI is way out!

In the right hands the VTS would out-do a GTI in the twisties because it has a more focused set up. But, and this is a big BUT! The GTI is more forgiving and as such most normal drivers can get away with pushing it more - hence why the driving press prefer it. I personally found the VTS easy and predictable to drive fast but you had to be aware that if you fecked up you ARE crashing

Both great cars and you'd be hard pushed to tell the difference between them to drive. I honestly think that anyone would be far happier with a 106 GTI than the punto. My (GTI/VTS) was the most fun car I've ever owned. I'm half thinking of getting one again

MooseRacer

I'm still not biting ..... Save to say they're both fantastic little cars hugely better than the Punto in every respect.

BigT

I like the punto. Quite tunable as well with it been a turbo. Fair amount of power for not that much money with a chip I would have though 160Bhp would be achievable and you get to go whoosh pop! On the down side they do seem a bit plain and plasticy on the inside not sure how they handle though.

Rich and Mini

"On cam" there's not much that can touch the VTS/GTi in the same sort of league. Have caught out more than a few "performance" cars who think I'm driving the VTR rather than a VTS. Such as the twin pipe TT driver who wouldn't move over for me and wondered why I was still on his tail at 115mph, in 4th Haha.

The Punto will certainly "whoosh and pop", especially when the turbo goes "pop"

GTi everytime over the Punto, in my opinion.

Rich

Any notice how much I dislike Puntos? Awful things...

Barnesy

Agree GTI is much faster than stated figures. More like mid to low 7's to 60. Dusted many a car in my 106 including a few VTS!!

Rich and Mini

VTS is definitely faster, GTi is heavier, has tarty things like half leather! Pah!

Only way a VTS would beat a GTi or vice versa is if the other car was in the wrong gear. UNless of course there's twistys about, then the VTS would win

Rich

LG John

There is nothing to bite at and there is no point in arguing VTS V 106 GTI as they are pretty much the same car! I believe the MKII VTS is fractions of a second faster because its a few kg lighter but if the VTS was half a tank of fuel and a 16 stone driver v 1/4 tank and an 11 stone driver its even. You'd never notice such petty differences on the road anyway! I raced a GTI once and from 20-100mph there was nothing in it at all - level and smiling at each other the whole way

It always amazes me that people still have this argument and claim to have dusted a VTS or GTI. Er, I spanked a scooby once in the Saxo but it certainly ain't quicker - he just fvcked up

The fact remains that for cheap thrills there WAS no hot-hatch (IMHO) on the market to touch a GTI/VTS until the Cup came out. Considering £6-8k would get you a lovely VTS/GTI I'd say they make far more sense than a Punto!!

LG John

Another thing about the VTS/GTI is that they rely heavily on their power to weight ratio which is exactly why they get hammered when the neds race them 3 up with 200kg of amps and sub-boxes in the back. A standard VTS with no such sound equipment can do the 1/4m in 15.3s which is there or there abouts the same as 172s - I don't think the punto is as fast standard.

Rich and Mini

Well I'm under 10 stone (just), car is totally standard MK2 VTS, and pulls like a train with just me in it, on cam Never got more than half a tank either lol.

Toasted some fool in a Corsa GSi the other day, makes you laugh when you think they were meant to compete with the GTi/VTS.

Hot hatches = happy days...

Til something breaks (well, they are French..!)

Rich

LG John

The Corsa GSI never really impressed me that much. The Polo GTI is even worse!! They are almost VTS quick from 3rd gear onwards but they are sooooo slow in 1st and 2nd. If the world was fair you'd be given a hot-hatch of your choice when you pass your test

MooseRacer

Not disputing the marginal straightline performance SB, just trying hard not to bite over your opinion that the VTS is a better handler.

(still not biting, but tempted to have a little nibble )

LG John

Wait Its not a 'better handler' as such but it can provide more grip. The handling on the 106 is more forgiving so for all but the best of drivers its the better handler. However, if you've got the skills/***** to take the VTS to the limit it will hold on that little better - you'd probably only notice this in the hands of a professional driver on track. You're local barry boys would stuggle to find the differences and will probably still bin both at the first corner! A lot of people found the snappy nature of the VTS too much to live with, I for one loved it even though it caught me out once and sent me into a field via the only sign post for 100m

The one thing that both the GTI and VTS have as an Ace Card is awesome turn in. You point - it goes That's why they are so much fun

Ian2wdsaffcos

I had always heard that the 106 was a slightly better handler than the VTS, more balanced etc. Does the VTS have bigger tyres or a different tyre make does anyone know as that's the only reason Ican think of for it holding the road any better?

Also I had heard that the only reason the VTS is faster to 60 is because it has a slightly longer 2nd gear & therefore can do the 0-60 run with only 1 gear change as opposed to 2 in the 106. According to Autocar's figures the 106 is actually 14kg lighter than the VTS.

Cheers,
Ian

LG John

I'm sure Rich D (who had a GTI) confirmed that the 2nd gear myth is bull and that the GTI can do 60 in 2nd. The bottom line is if you go and buy a GTI and VTS tomorrow, stick 5000 miles on them and then race them they will be the same! You've got a keen eye if you can spot any difference!

The VTS has 194/45 15s which I think is a lower profile than the GTI. Handling and grip are two seperate things remember. You can do some pretty crazy things in a VTS (especially on smooth tarmac) but if you get carried away or worse still - bottle it, then it will bite you! Both will provide a very similar experience in all respects - the individual just has to choose what he/she prefers I've said it before and I'll say it again - I don't think there is any contest between a VTS/GTI and a the Punto.

mozzaITA

Opps have i started a war??? lol...... not saying that the vts isnt a good car as it is extreamly similar to the 106 GTI... just think the 106 is a bit more grown up.

Didnt know that u get little 14 inch alloys on a pug!! thats a downer!!!

Basically we wanna spend £4000.00 on the car and ive seen 106's go for 3.5-4k on p/r reg.

as for the punto i think we would only get one if we couldnt find a good 106 then we would start looking at puntos.

LG John

The 106 isn't grown up at all! Its pretty much the same car its just that they have been priced and marketed differently. Given that the sales of the VTS and the fact that most 18 year olds aspire to it means that in 'financial' terms its more of a sucess story. If you feel more comfortable driving a GTI then go for it Where I live they are both equally rare and perform the same so its down to other things. I don't like the square interior of the GTI and I think the styling is a little 'skinny' which is why for me the VTS is the best choice Either way you can't go wrong with any of them.........but you can with a Punto

Stu_M

Saxo Boy, Unfortunately Saxo's down this neck of the woods aren't rare, seem to get snapped up by the Max muppet brigade, normally VTR's but they just stick the 16v badge on the side and suddenly believe they are driving a VTS. Sights like this are all to common:-

http://mancftp1.valuehost.co.uk/Djsaxo/sobad.jpg

The VTS is a good car without question but seems to have been degraded a bit down here due to alot 18yr old VTR owners styling ideas, and if you can get virtually the same package that doesn't get (as much) muppet treatment then I'd go for the 106, I think this is where Mozza is coming from. Obviously different breed up in Scotland

MattN

Punto GT is a cool car, esp in yellow.

Struggles with the 136bhp going through the tiny front wheels but once moving it is really quite quick.