TurboMav

Who's had 1 and how good r they guys, im intersted in getting 1, I know it has a higher bhp than the clio sport, but would 1 trouble me, both cars being standard? do they have higher transmission losses than the sport?

cheers
Andy J

what would scooby do

Ok as a shopping car, bosses wife has one, got rid of it this week and got an audi A4 avant instead.

unless you drive @6k rpm all the time, many 150-180BHP cars with good torque will walk all over you...

Gav

you can get a nice scoob for the same money, and one that'll blow the civic away.


gav..

JimmySTI

Guys

I swopped the CTR for an STI7, the honda is a great car for the money but you get all the shopping car jokes over and over.. It does go very well and will wipe the floor with alot of more expensive cars, but after a year I traded in for an sti7, not regretted it at all... ctr is a good car but sti is in a different league but then it is 10k more.. you pays your money...

J

CTRnutter

had one before the STI-8

For a NA front wheel drive car there is none better, Honda build the greatest engines in the world, the car is a round town car and when you wind it up to 6k and floor it the noise is immense and it it really is a flexible car because you never drop out of V-Tec when gunning it,

and don't get me started about the gearbox, absolute class,

in fact blimey if i ever come into a little bit of cash that will become my second car without a doubt and then a trip straight to Sumo Power to get some Spoon Goodies

Bris

Had one for 3 months and really enjoyed it. Some points to note though
1 Front wheel drive and no LSD
2 Does little before 6000 rpm
3 Driving for long period in the VTec eg above 6k becomes very tiresome
4 I agree with the gearbox comments but 1st is pretty useless as it is so short

Also changed mine for an STI7, different league

CTRnutter

actualy one bad point though, as any CTR driver will tell you and that is EPS !!!!!

[Edited by CTRnutter - 7/17/2003 10:30:03 AM]

richs2891

Probably being extremely thick here due to slight hang over but what is EPS, CTRNutter, care to enlight me!

Probably going to buy a CTR in the next few months when the cheque comes from insurance company as want something a little more economical than my now dead MY02, and less likely to get vandelised, car jacked, stands out a little less etc whilst working in Manchester

DJ Dunk

iTrader: (5)

EPS = Electronic Power Steering.

Never had a problem with it myself. Get the geometry done and the handling is fine. EPS always gets the blame

richs2891

thanks for that is that, the fog is lifting a little, read quite a bit on the power steering problems and the need to have the geometry / tracking set from the factory. I know that ABP motorsports offer a fast road setup, did you go for this or something simlair

Richard

BigJim

I have one and love it!! They dont seem to attract the wrong sort of attention that scoobs do either (I live near Manchester)
Some points made earlier :
1. If you drive above 6k it gets tiresome - eh? Over 6k in sixth is 130mph so doubt you'll drive over 6k for very long....
2 .Does nothing before 6k - mine gets pretty damn nippy at 4k, true the real balst doesnt happen till 6, but run with Optimax makes it perkier lower down the rev range (in my experience)
3. The old 'you have to thrash it to get any speed' - dont most cars produce max bhp just before the redline?
4. You can embarrass WRX scoobies. Watch their eyes widen as they cant loose you
As for Clio sport, only had 1 traffic light GP with one of these - They wont keep up.

Diablo

LOL we've been here before.

Up to 6000 rpm they produce similar BHP & Torque as any "ordinary" 2L n/a 4 pot.

All this crap about vtecs being gutless before the cam timing change point is a bit

think "normal" 2 litre 16 valve engine up to 6,000 rpm and mental thereafter.

The "lack" of torque compared to other n/a engines of same size is in comparison to the fun after 6,000, not actual.

D



[Edited by Diablo - 7/17/2003 12:54:04 PM]

CTRnutter

I'm lost all idid was praise the car ?????

S.B.

Had one enjoyed while i had it but the scoob was calling me back so sold it and bought a version 4 type r a lot happier now....

Diablo

CTR Nutter - my post was in response to the "does nothing below 6000 rpm" comment (not yours).

And also to pre empt all the similar comments that would probably flow

CTRnutter

okey dokey

Cosworth427

================================================== ================
LOL we've been here before.

Up to 6000 rpm they produce similar BHP & Torque as any "ordinary" 2L n/a 4 pot.

All this crap about vtecs being gutless before the cam timing change point is a bit

think "normal" 2 litre 16 valve engine up to 6,000 rpm and mental thereafter.

The "lack" of torque compared to other n/a engines of same size is in comparison to the fun after 6,000, not actual.

D
================================================== =================

Exactly. I'm so tired of narrowminded people here who expect others who have more knowledge or experience to accept their baseless opinion.

I got a distinct feeling that the belief over a CTR does *nothing* before 6000 RPM has been a result of a few misguided people who only *read* about the car rather than having driven one, OR even driven another car with the same natural aspirated engine size that doesn't make as much power as a CTR does.

People who make out a CTR is a road legal drag racing car is misguided also. Type-R editions are RACE READY homologated cars. They're built to last under the stresses of racing. Try to race prep any other "performance car" and it will cost you 4-5 figures to get to the same level.

Paul_M

Agreed that they don't make less torque than standard 2.0 engines, but people generally assume that because the car produces nearly 200BHP that it's going to leave a 2.0 Mondeo trailing in any gear.

In reality the Mondeo produces 145lb/ft torque at 4500RPM and the CTR produces 144lb/ft 5900RPM. So the torque figures are almost identical but the Mondeo produces its peak 1400RPM lower down the rev range. How many times have we heard people complaining when driving repmobiles like the 2.0 Mondeo as gutless? Unless you drive around town with the revs over 5000RPM the Mondeo is going to be more flexible than the CTR. There is a weight difference of course but only around 150Kg when both cars have aircon.

People don't compare these cars to repmobiles when considering their purchase, it's usually Impreza WRXs or Cupra Rs etc. Compared to these cars the CTR is gutless for normal driving, even though peak power figures are similar (if you're prepared to work the CTR hard).

The VTEC is a marvel of engineering and does the job brilliantly at getting so much power out of a NA 2.0 however there's no substitute for either increased displacement or forced induction when it comes to torque. It's not gutless compared to any other NA 2.0, but if you think other bog standard 2.0s are gutless with regards torque then the CTR isn't any better.

Horses for courses really - if you drive your car hard all the time it will be ideal but if you like to have loads of torque for pottering around and going up hills etc without having to thrash the car as well as top-end power when you feel like having fun it won't be so ideal.

Rich D

iTrader: (12)

A CTR would beat a normal 172 Sport, but a Cup is another matter...


The thing is, a Clio weighs a lot less than a CTR, particularly a Cup model, so it's the power-to-weight ratio thing.

The CTR has an impressive 197 bhp and makes 166bhp/tonne, wheras a Clio Cup has less power with only 172 bhp, but it has a healthy 170bhp/tonne!


Plus, the 6 speed box has a slightly higher loss than that of a 5 speed box. I used to have a 306 Rallye with a 6 speed box and there is a little bit more loss, although not as much as people often think.


Both cars are similar performance wise.

john banks

Paul_M sums it up perfectly for me. People complain about the lag of a Scooby, but usually it only lasts 0.5 seconds if you are over 3000 RPM and for some of that time you are already making more torque than NA 2.0 litre.

I don't think there is any NA engine below about 3 litres in a production car that you could say has impressive torque?

[Edited by john banks - 7/17/2003 4:39:00 PM]

Geoff CTR

All i will say is DRIVE ONE and come back and tell me its gutless before 6000, the people who say this have never driven a CTR. I can pootle around town at 30 in 6th gear and nail it (in 6th) well into double figures. If thats not flexible then i do not know what is.32 mpg and handling to beat a WRX (remember top gear, same driver ).For the money its unbeatable new.

Geoff

john banks

Driven one. They are gutless for their top end performance and for a performance car.

bluenose172

iTrader: (2)

Suppose most cars would feel that way coming from a 400bhp monster. I don't think it's guttles, IMHO!

LG John

The one I was in recently felt like it had nowhere near the ***** and guts of your brothers cup - irrespective of whether its was in VTEC or not! The CTR is strange, on the one hand you hear reports of them being mental quick and toasting x, y and z. Then other storeys of them being cr@p and being eaten alive by a, b and c It makes you wonder if they suffer from big power differences which is NOT something you'd expect from Honda who arguably build the best engines in the world

Maybe they don't like certain kinds of weather

john banks

I am not even thinking of 400 BHP here... only 194 BHP in a heavier car but with 197lbft - when soggy old repmobiles worth buttons get the hop on CTRs there is something wrong. Being caught with your pants down in a CTR can easily happen from yawnfully mundane opposition.

Worse still, on driving they give you no confidence for overtakes which you would not think twice about in something with real torque.

There is no substitute for cubes, or their equivalent from forcing it IMHO.

Turbo lag is hell, but normal 2.0 litre performance until well up the rev range is far more limiting.

CTRnutter

Name something better for the money then ???? for a new car with the same reliability and build quality as well.

If you get beaten by re mobiles in one then I'm sorry your not driving it properly because held in third round some twisties keeping it at 6k it will keep up with a WRX and I have done it !! so I'm lost with your comments

I can't beleive for one second with those comments you have ever owned a honda performance car and lived with one day to day, they seem very basic in terms to the cars setup, this is inentional with the tourque coming in later on.

Shall we move on to the idea of mazdas 1.3 ltr Rotary engine its just another way of producing power.

The only reason We bought a STI8 is that we didn't think there was anyway of producing high BHP and planting it on the floor, which is and advantage of having AWD

[Edited by CTRnutter - 19/07/2003 10:30:48]

golfliam

Seat Leon Cupra r £16,995

Now has the 225 bhp engine and with a £500 remap it will give around 270 bhp with similar torque....

Rich D

iTrader: (12)

Agreed.

Plus they look better IMO, tuning potential is massive, it's got the VW/Audi reliability, etc...


Or there's the Clio Cup, at £13k list price, but can be had for less.

Geoff CTR

My dad has got a Leon R ,not in the same league as CTR. Soggy handling and poor reliability (do not believe this VW crap about them being reliable, same as brothers S3 never away from garage).And as for this trash about Mondeos getting the jump on a CTR, Wake up.

Geoff

S.B.