zoog

Anyone agree that modern cars can be so grippy that it is hard to have as much fun as older cars?

I currently have a Clio Cup, which is fast, agile and very grippy and a lot of fun all round, but is still not as much fun as it's spiritual predecessor, the 205 1.9 gti was. The difference I have decided is that in the pug there was a lot less grip and I could get either the back or the front to slide at will and control the car throught the corners on the throttle at even low speeds. The Cup is just too good at its job, I'd have to be on track doing track speeds to play the same way. It is this playing with the car through corners which that gives me most pleasure from driving, not outright speed, I have decided.

Sometimes you take 2 steps forward and one step back.

fastka

personally, i don't understand all this ****-out action and sideways stuff

get my pleasure from moving along briskly in the direction i want to be going!!

RB5#295

I pretty much reckon that cars have not improved since the early 90's, in fact they have got worse from an enthusiast's point of view.

They get bigger HP figures and bigger rims, but they get fatter as well and character seems to be all but forgotten (because of safety equipment? ESP, TCS, EBA, drive-by-wire etc.)

That said I test drove 3 Clio 172's (I found them ultimately underwhelming) but I thought that they were actually quite adjustable and I had the back end weaving a bit on a roundabout in one (lift-off oversteer).

Fen

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Try a Frogye Sprite, ugly, tiny, not much power and even less grip, you feel like Stirling Moss and are hanging on for grim death and then a mummy in a Supermini goes round you !

But the best fun ever, grip is over rated really, never understood the Nova's on 17's with 225 section tyres, must go on two wheels when cornering.

Crush

It's fun if you're just mucking about, but time spent going sideways can be time spent going forwards & setting a good time

Just go out to a roundabout on a rainy night if the grip bores you

Tim-Grove

That V6 Clio didn't seem to have much grip on TopGear just now:. Good old Stig

Rich D

iTrader: (12)

Since when was a Clio Cup the spiritual successor to a 205 GTi?!


Anyway, if you want a modern day 205 GTi, then I'd suggest a drive in a 106 GTi mate!

TopBanana

I agree with you zoog, they're a lot less fun. But for the majority of road users, more grip = more ability to swerve out of a difficult situation or suchlike. Road cars aren't really designed to be fun any more

NotoriousREV

You can get a Morris Minor sideways at 15mph on crossply tyres in the wet, way more fun than a 205 GTi

catflap

Sidewayes is ace

thats why i bought a westfield

O n i o n.

I have to agree with Mr RB5#295 about the Clio cup.
These babies will go more sideways than you can imagine.
The lift off oversteer on these is greater than any hatch I have ever been in. I recently did a PDI on one and took her on a final road test and experianced this oversteer and scared myself to death. In the right hands (not mine) these are exellent fun if you can cope with the harsh ride and dashboard rattles.

midget1500

j4cko - yes, but just as scooby owners make some mods to their cars, so do many frogeye and midget owners, so not only do they feel fast, but they are - and the grip is unreal

steven
www.powercars.co.uk - fighting the midget corner

Jonto

Apparently, sideways is the new forwards !

Flat 4x4

My A4 Quattro had enormous grip on bigger tyres but not as much fun (chuckability) as my Impreza or Skoda with less grip.

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

I agree with Zoog to a degree.
It is once car begins to loose grip, is when it becomes fun.
And cars with too much of the stuff can be not as involving.

Most importantly I feel it is how a car looses grip, whether it is sudden or progressive. That is why small cars with crap tyres are fun in the wet as they begin to let go progressively at low speeds, e.g my old ford fiesta and nisan micra.

I currently have a Eunos for the summer. It is supercharged and chiped, lowered on Ebachs so it is on the floor and has some seriously fat rubber on it and a very very stiff chassis on it. So as you can imagine it grips and handles like nothing on earth. But although it is a fun drive, you can't drive it to the limit of its grip on the road because if it did let go it wouldn't be progressive, you would be upside down in a field before you could bink, so isn't so much fun. I am sure that if you took it out on an airfield in the wet and spent a while getting used to it then it would be a laugh.

Which brings me on to why I feel Subarus are so good. They are very very quick but on the limit, which is often at big speeds, they are very proggressive in the way they lose grip. They are just fantastic.

I was chatting to a police driver a few years back and he told me that they had the choice of three cars. One handled the best. One was the quickest in the straight line. And one was neither but it allways behaved predicably in terms of grip on the limit. And thats the one they went for.

Can't wait for my next Subaru

Thats my thoughts
Ducks for cover/flame suit on.
Steve

astraboy

<personally, i don't understand all this ****-out action and sideways stuff>
Dont knock it till you've tried it. In the right car sideways is an amazing experience. Its difficult to do properly, but that just makes it all the more rewarding when you do get it right.
Its the reason why I've just bought a Nissan 200sx. Its also the reason why I will never buy another FWD car ever again.
astraboy.

TopBanana

It's not hard to get most FWD cars sideways, astraboy!

RB5#295

But lift-off is nowere near as much fun as power oversteer...

Fen

Dream Weaver

MR2 and rain, nuff said

Olly

James Hunt had the right idea, shunning supercars for his beloved Austin A35 van on crossplies.

I'm a big fan of low speed fun. Anyone claiming to slide their Impreza about with abandon on the public highway is either a liar or an accident waiting to happen.

Where I live, you can't hoon around on the A roads without getting flashed at, so the only place to play is down the lanes or on the odd B road. Your average Impreza requires big MPH to slide (I mean PROPERLY slide), which isn't too handy when you meet the oncomimg milk tanker or tractor. Quick, small cars that fit in the gaps between the hedge and the tractor are ideal. Hence nothing does the job better and is as much fun as my 205 GTi.

Dream Weaver

Agree with Olly, and even my humble 205 XS is actually more fun than my MR2 was round the lanes, if a little slower

Dream Weaver

Doh, I always miss those corner jobbies

brickboy

Same as applies with bikes -- modern cars often have to be driven at stupid speeds to get any involvement / feedback, and it's the same with modern bikes. They're too powerful, too grippy and handle too well -- no fun unless you're the wrong side of the legal limit.

si325i

325i in the wet