Mega

Not got any axe to grind here, but Autocar love the RS......J Clarkson and EVO hate it. I was hoping that either an honest RS owner or somebody who has driven one would like to tell.

Is it a torque steering diaster.....or Delight?
Mega

LG John

Uh-oh @ this thread

moses

i like it and hope its successful , i like the wrc version with the bodykit though thats awesome

Tracey

Right there are 2 on this board that i know off.

One is a regular at track days his focus has done 4or5 events with the southern lot,And it is equal to a scoob handling and braking very precise.

Only looses out to a p1 on power [DECAT P1] slightly.

If they read this they may report a better description.

Cheers paul

Mike123

I suspect you'll get replies from owners who love the things and then other people who have managed to get a drive in them and either love it or hate it. Seems to provoke strong opinions, doesn't seem to be much middle ground. I know a bloke who has gone from a Racing Puma to a Focus RS and he loves it.

[Edited by Mike123 - 5/16/2003 8:52:21 PM]

Andy Mid.

don't know of anyone who has driven an RS who hates it apart from

1. Jeremy Clarkson (who always likes to take extreme views), and

2. EVO mag who slated it from day 1, against the tide of reviews by all the other car mags. The EVO articles had the RS doing some quick track times against really serious competition and they timed it to 100 in 14.9 which isn't exactly slow but they were really critical and seemed to revel in opposing popular opinion.

All "normal" people that I know who have driven an RS have been impressed but it has had a lot of stick from people who haven't driven it.

Mega - I've got to admit to being sceptical about you starting this thread seeing as you were a massive troll on this subject in the past - lol

John STI 8

I drove one a couple of weeks ago, wasn't terribly impressed with it. Without doubt the quickest and nicest handling FWD car I've had a go in, but really not in the same league as an Evo or STI. I'll look forward to the 300hp 4WD version if that ever occurs though. J

Mega

Just trying to see what "normal" people think. I wouldn't get one because for thar sort of cash i rather wait till BMW M2 coupe or Zed 350, yes i know they will cost a bit more but we talking rear wheel drive.

Vauxhall VX coupe, the Lighting? 240 supercharged, front engine rear drive 50/50 weight balance........for about the same cash.

You have to wait though.
Mega

John STI 8

I'd definitely go for RWD, I drive an S2000 quite often, not super fast but it makes up for it in fun. J

Andy Mid.

Fair enough. A mate of mine is quite close to getting a VX220 as there are some stonking deals on new ones at the moment. He's just waiting to go out in the turbo version to see if it's worth the extra cash. I wouldn't consider it to be a direct rival for the RS tho as you can hardly chuck your mountain bike in the back of it

Mega

I miss RWD but the only show in town for many years were underpowered BMWs. The new 2 series should cure that. Compact and using alloy pannels to cut weight.

The Vauxhall should be great, i expect Lotus will fine tune the handling for them (and i hope to GOD Lotus don't build it for them!)Users a 6 speed box, i wonder if they got that on the rear axle (944/968 style).

Like the Zed 350 but its a bit on the weighty side, still pently more to come. VW and their "Elise" Duel clutch gearbox, and face-lifted Boxster Fixed head Clubsport.

Till then, i stick with the "Rice Rocket".
Mega

fatherpierre

Underpowered BMWs?

They've made models above the 316/18 for a while now

P1Fanatic

So your saying you need a tuned (read decatted p1) to keep up? Are you taking the pish m8?

Simon

LG John

That did raise my eyebrows a little as well I must admit! That basically means my car would get taken by a standard RS despite the full decat, tek2.5, dawes, etc, etc - scary stuff!!

RichardPON

This is an interesting topic.

I love Clarkson, but the man has very limited driving skill. Ever remember that episdoe where he said he couldn't get the Elise to power oversteer, until the car was taken to Hethel, where the Lotus test driver proceeded to get the car dancing all over the road.

We've got our Focus RS due for delivery in a couple of weeks, with the sale of the Escort Cosworth as a result. Personally it wouldn't be my choice, but Rob has driven 6 or 7 of them, including a marked out circuit at Brunters. He lapped a 60 odd second course over a second quicker in the Focus RS than his well modified, coilover'd 360 bhp Escort Cossie.

As far as the ATB issue is concerned, I'm not convinced. The ATB is in place to prevent torque steer, and as such, the drive would be so much worse if it was just a standard LSD - ask any RS Turbo owner what it's like with 200+ bhp and FWD with an LSD. At the end of the day, the RS is FWD, but it has superb handling capabilities, and a clear ability to carry much corner speed.

We'll see how they cope with more horse power!

PG

Saxo Boy,

Chris G now has a FRS and feels it is as quick and certainly better handling than his Scoob (Similar spec to yours IIRC)
will try and direct him to this thread

TaviaRS

Been on track at the same time as one. We were within a second of each other each lap, so I'd say its handles reasonably well. All I'll say is the guy in the Civic Type R didn't like either of us

Some people just don't like being overtaken by a Skoda

Stevie

Not defending EVO, but they did say it is a fantastic car on track.

On normal (fun) A and B roads they say the front diff makes the car, difficult, to say the least. Ive no doubt if you were to read an RS report in Track Car Monthly (or whatever it is), it would be one of the best £20k saloons for track.

I do know what EVO are after, I have much more fun on an empty technical B road on my own than on track. (Except the Ring)

PAS

iTrader: (4)

P1Fanatic

If you read it properly it says the car only looses out to NOZZERS P1 ON power slightly Meaning the p1 is faster.

The RS is in my garage at the mo and i can confirm it is a nice safe quick car which i would have.

Only thing for me is no burble so scoob stays

Hope that clears it up for you


Cheers paul

chrisp

Most reviews I have read have said the RS V WRX the RS is a better track car and the WRX a better road car. I still think for the average driver (like most of us ) the WRX is a safer more predictable car and would be quicker on all but the flatest track like roads.

If that compromises it by a second or two on a track lap time then I guess I could live with that . I own a Focus zetec and an RA and I am seriously considering swapping my zetec for an ST170 as I think the Focus are a great car but an RS doesnt even enter the equation. No choice in colours (although the blue is nice), not keen on the interior and steering wheel, insurance compared to the ST170 and the fact they only come in 3 doors which would be a major pain.

The new scoob chassis is also quite capable to taking a lot more power. The Focus with it being FWD and already has reduced torque in 1st and 2nd would IMHO struggle with more power.

jonmorris

Make a cup of tea, sit down and read my (hopefully honest) opinion…

There has been a lot of misinformation about the Focus RS, just as there has been about other cars no doubt. Most journalists end up writing their own personal opinion, however impartial they aim to be. That can quickly become the opinion of the masses who believe everything they’re told, never thinking to question if what they are being told is actually true. The media know this, which is why newspapers have the power to shape public opinion and even change Governments.

I must admit that I’ve been “stopped” by a fair few people, in petrol stations or wherever – and the first thing a lot of them ask, after saying “nice car”, is “I hear it’s hard to control” or “What about the horrible torque steer?”. It would seem the entire world thinks the Focus RS is a death trap.

I remember when Auto Express wrote about overboosting problem that would “hold back the release”, even though the problem was only on pre-production cars and the car had been going out to customers for over a month. This started people talking about how the RS was yet another Ford-f**kup.

Now all the mags are making up stories about the Focus Cosworth specifications, based on some photos of a possible test mule seen in a petrol station!

Evo, a magazine supposedly aimed at petrol heads who know how to drive, liked the car in their first review but quickly changed their opinion in a massive U-turn. All of a sudden, they started talking about the car as if it would be bought by someone who had no idea on driving a fast car (people who aren’t likely to buy an RS no matter what). Meanwhile Top Gear started their new TV series with J.C. slating the car and then the magazine giving it best drivers’ car and car of the year. Crazy!

Autocar have continually defended the car and always made some effort to explain to people about the driving characteristics. In a recent issue, they even say readers should ignore what they read elsewhere because those people do not know how to drive – ouch!

A lot of people, including JC, are quick to say “torque steer”. In truth, it’s the differential putting the power down which can cause the twitching - without the wheels spinning like crazy. That’s what the ATB diff is designed to do. Okay, so this might sound rather pedantic (an average person probably cannot tell the difference) but it shows you cannot trust everything you read or hear from so-called ‘experts’.

Easing off will “fix” the problem straight away anyway but - and this is why the car performs so well on a track - if you’ve got the nerve you should actually KEEP the power down and wait for it to go where you want it to, at some speed too. I wonder if J.C. and the like actually knew what to do when they drove these cars? Perry McCarthy (aka “The Stig” – well, one of them) rates the car and Tiff Needell was nowhere near as critical.

I have driven a lot throughout the UK on back roads and surfaces that are not as smooth as a newly laid stretch of motorway tarmac but I have not had the problems people speak of. I can only imagine the road surfaces must be VERY bad, in which case I wouldn’t be driving fast anyway – for fear of wrecking the suspension or wheels (been there, done that.. bought the new alloy wheels!). Only when it was freezing around December/January time did I ever feel the car was not in complete control. But at the same time, I saw a WRX spin out on a roundabout in front of me, at relatively low speed. It only goes to show that nobody is invincible.

J.C. has been proven (on many occasions) to know very little about driving and simply likes to be controversial. His commentary of The Stig taking a car around a track shows how little he really knows, but he makes good television and is funny – especially when he chooses cars for his “cool board”.

Ford fans will pick out the good reviews and Ford haters will pick out the bad. Just the same as anyone else who enjoys starting a “my car is better than your car” debate. At the end of the day though, most real enthusiasts respect other cars and would probably love to own and drive as many as they could.

For loads of reasons, people choose the one they like most – for performance, price, styling, features, insurance or cost of ownership etc. I always liked the standard Focus though, which probably had something to do with my decision to get the RS. Yet when I took the car on the track at Gaydon (and got driven around Bentwaters Park for Driven on CH4) I knew that it wasn’t going to be a big mistake made because of tunnel vision “forcing” me to get the Ford. Oh and Driven chose the Focus RS, for what it’s worth!

[Edited by jonmorris - 5/17/2003 4:18:40 PM]

RS Grant

ChrisP... The Focus RS insurance group is 16 and the ST170 is a group 15 car so the increase is not that great considering you are buying a better spec car with over 40bhp increase, although I agree that the lack of a 5dr model reduces practicality.

I also remember that recently Ford Dealers were giving away a years free insurance with every new ST170 they sold but I think that offer has finished, might be worth checking out though.

Cheers,
Grant

jonmorris

I'm paying £600 on the Focus RS for insurance, compared to £1200 on the Escort. Quite a saving year on year (and I protected it for less than £100 on top - an option not even available to me when I had the Escort, unless I paid an absolute fortune).

Mega

Jon Thanks!
You have told me more than all the mags put together, so if it doesn't like a bit of road, just lift off? Does it not try to oversteer in this case?

As i said right at the start i don't have an Axe to grind on this subject. Its not normal for the Motoring press to give such differing views on one car.

I wouldn't pay that sort of cash for an RS, either Modd a Skoda RS or CTR. I like mt CTR it suits me well and has not given me any trouble at all. I run it for another 2-3 years than BMW M2 Coupe or Vauxhall lighting........or something like that. I want front engine, rear drive fun again!

My thanks to all those posted.
Cheers
Mike

jonmorris

I don't actually take corners at high speeds, even though I've been around bends at 90+ mph on the track - and it's an amazing, almost scary, feeling. There are lots of other reasons why it is crazy on a public road - so I cannot say whether it suddenly tries to oversteer. If you did lift off completely then I would have to say that I would expect it to do so.

I've been caught out a few times, on bends somewhat sharper than I anticipated, and it's just held the road like glue. However, it's not nice when instead of grass or tyres, you've got a crash barrier that will happily do lots of expensive damage to your price and joy. I know some people love to talk about "beating people on the twisties", but I cannot think of many races where people have been racing around twisty roads - it's suicidal.

I forgot to also mention that the press are apparently having a go at the Alfa 147 GTA now. I guess that some journos see FWD and 200+ BHP and simply jump to conclusions.

Quite a few people have already chipped their FRS (to around 235bhp) and this removes SOME of the restriction in 1st and 2nd (not all, especially first). People have noticed that in second the diff is a little bit wayward but not anything you can't get used to very quickly. With the 0-60 down to 5.7, some people clearly think it's worth it. I am not sure any more power increases will be a good idea but that isn't going to stop people trying. The engine is good for a lot more power but the gearbox is going to be the biggest weakness, in my opinion.

[Edited by jonmorris - 5/17/2003 10:13:43 PM]

chrisp

So my 800 quid quote on an ST170 with 40% wasnt too bad then . Going to try to get it on my scoob policy which has FNCB.

I brought the zetec as I wanted a normal family hatch with 5 doors and normal looking that I could leave anywhere. Hopefully if I can get the ST170 debadged and even badged as a zetec or ghia then it would help the stealth look . As with the RA there is no point disguising the RS with the extra body kit (and you shouldnt have to ). Its just it would leave me with two cars that I would be afraid to leave in a city centre car park at night attracting unwanted attention . So my options are :

RA and ST170
1.6 Zetec and RS
ST170 and RS

I really want the ST170 for running round in and doing the family and work mileage as the zetec is okay but a bit slow for me now .

Trouble is spent a small fortune on the RA and its a lovely quick car and only done 9K miles.

I think the ST170 and RS would be very close so I cant see the point in having both.

Final option is buy the ST170 this year and a 911 next year then a Focus cossie in 2005 .

Oh I dont know I am rambling half drawn up thoughts now think I need to sleep on it .

jonmorris

My other car is a 1.25ltr Fiesta Ghia. Hardly fast, but very economical, mega cheap to insure and you can park it anywhere. It's also 5 doors, which can be useful at times.

ChrisG

I guess I am fairly well qualified to comment.....
I did have a MY00 with Tek2.5/full decat etc and "Prodrive" wheel alignment. I absolutely loved my Scoob and was sad to see it go.
I now have a Focus RS.
Now my unbiased opinion is that they are both great cars, but the Focus is better. Fair enough a modded Scoob might be more powerful but the Focus is quicker point to point (under my average abilty). The way it can cover ground and go round corners is frightening. The driving experience is just better!

RS Grant

ChrisG...

I will pull you over if I see you and you can take me for a spin in it, I have yet to go for a drive in one and cant wait!!

Look out for a Black RS Turbo flashing and waving, that'll be me!!

Oh, and by the way, the Superchips Bluefin conversion is about 250bhp from memory and is untraceable by Ford dealers.

Cheers,
Grant

jonmorris

The Bluefin is only 237bhp but it's well mapped out (no stupid peaks to give max bhp with terrible delivery) and not going to put the car under any stress. The original car was meant to be around this power figure anyway.