Toerag

Ok, it's the Uber hot hatch, but the Pug 205 GTi 1.9 version has a real reputation for swopping ends when you lift off like the old 911's did. I want to know what differences from the 1.6 version made it so much more susceptible. We know the wheels are different, and the engine, but are there any other differences?

Diablo

Had one for a couple of years when I was younger.

Don't listen to all the hype about swapping ends, they are not as bad as early 911's. I drove mine like a nutter and had no more than a couple of oversteer moments.

1.9 Gti's have a slightly narrower front track and slightly wider rear track than 1.6's.

I think the front track was simply a wheel offset issue (they were very sensitive to offset) and the rear track was wider due to new hubs and a rear disk set up (1.6 had drums)

if there was any real difference, I suspect it was because the 1.9 was much more torquey than the 1.6, so a lift off after power on would cause a greater torque reversal than the 1.6.

If anything, the track changes should have made the 1.9 more stable, i would have thought.

D

Rich D

iTrader: (12)

It's to do with the weight shifting to the front of the car and the suspension setup...

When you lift off, the balance transfers to the front of the car, rear goes light, lifts a wheel, breaks traction, then you go sideways.

You can actually balance the car on the throttle.

Seems to be a Peugeot trait, which is fantastic.

dome

If you're on the ball and in the mood they're fantastic. I had mine for 9 months and thrashed it including a road rally and a track day and the only time i spun it was pootling round a wet roundabout on my way home from night shift.

Dream Weaver

Dont think it is just the 1.9, just Pugs in general.

Once had a real heart stopper in my 205 1.6 that sent me snaking off a diesel covered roundabout (trying to impress some lads in a R5 GTT )

IMHO these "traits" are just excuses that crap drivers/journos make up when they crash a car. The MR2 was supposedly "dangrous" but I found it great fun, the 205 was as well.

Mungo

And the wheelbase is pretty short - it makes them nimble but also more easy to spin - lower moment of inertia on the yaw axis.

TopBanana

I spun my 406 a couple of times

TIM_H

i've got one as my work/ track car, and i've never yet experienced oversteer of any sort.

I have done one track day in it, and am brutal with it daily.

it has got Koni adjustables fitted. - or - perhaps i'm not trying hard enough!

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Metro GTI's do it, and manage to be crap as well, mine was evil.

Mike123

My friend Andy had 2 205 1.9 Gti s from new - an E-reg and an H-reg. He could get them to oversteer in very fast bends but he was a pretty good driver in my opinion - works for Nissan Motorsport and used to work for Mazda Rally Team when they had the 323 4x4.

He once had a 309 Gti as a courtesy car and reckoned it was lot more stable - I got to drive it and really like it even over the 205 1.9. Went and bought a 309 Gti and had it for 3 years - never had any lift off oversteer in it even chasing my friends 205 really hard when I could see his Gti drifting slightly at the back.

Steve Terzo

Hi, the reason the 1.9 is keener to spin over the 1.6 is purely down to the anti-roll bar.
If you can find any articles at the time of launch, you'll see that the setup was "beefed" up for the 1.9, this made it a bit more of a handful when lifting off!
Although the 1.9 is faster, It was the 1.6 the was regarded as being the "drivers car" as it was more composed on the limit.
I've owned & enjoyed both models, but my personal favourite was the 1.6.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Steve.

what would scooby do

A friend crashed his 306xsi badly on a bend, lifted off mid corneras he saw slower traffic - ended up on the roof after hitting the kerb.

I tried same thing in my company car xsi in a car park and it span out also.. bloody french ***** if you ask me..

Olly

A 205 GTi is a precision driving tool. They couldn't possibly make another in todays nanny state. Claims Direct and Nicky Cambell would have a feel day.

If you are forever spinning the thing, buy a nice understeery Nova GTE. For a 205, adopt a Jackie Stewart or Alan Prost driving style (soooo smooooooth and relaxed), be fluid and deliberate with the controls and a 205 becomes unbeatable. Big inputs such as hastily throwing lock at it, or using the throttle as an on-off switch will end in tears. This applies in ANY car of course: its just that most cars nowadays (and in the 80's) have a build in safety margain, protecting the careless but robbing feel and sharpness.

ScoobyJawa

Agree with Olly. They aren't French ***** - Peugeot have made some of the best and most renouned in speed and handling wise hot hatches of all time. You need to be aware of the lift off oversteer (in fact lots of other cars suffer it just as bad as the 205). If you are ready for it, and know how to deal with it, it makes the car a real tool on the road, and absolutely fantastic fun. My old GTi-6 was exactly the same, a bit more refined than the 205, but very predictable with what it was going to do.

Rich D

iTrader: (12)

Aye, but the 306 has passive rear-wheel steering, so although it's still easy to get the back end out, it's more controlable and a lesser driver can "get away with it" so to speak...

sebastian

If they still made 1.9's I d get another one tomorrow, no question.

ScoobyJawa

Rich - are you stalking me?

Rich D

iTrader: (12)

Err... no...


[Edited by Rich D - 3/18/2003 9:26:34 AM]

sammyh

iTrader: (1)

I found all my 205's (six of them) very adjustable.

I lost the back end once (my fault) in six years of ownership.
The total cure is to use the Peugeot sport torsion bars which are a thicker 22mm I believe.

Blackscooby

This is my attempt (quite successful I might add) of swapping ends.

Totally my fault. Way to fast entry into bend, something like 90mph just before coming into view. Taken at Harewood Hillclimb, normally change up to 3rd up the long straight and lift just entering the bend. For some bizzare reason I changed up to 4th and kept it nailed. Way too fast, and had to lift off suddenly. Around she comes

http://www.btinternet.com/~blackscooby/jdmcars/Spin.avi

Right click and save as.

Toerag

Thanks for the replies guys, Hopefully a 1.9 would go round this corner