LEE P

Hi folks!

just wondered if anyone has gone for the new sport?

i was thinking about it as ive driven one with the sport suspension and it felt more involving than the audi and still 50mpg!

it comes with the aero pack. which is a must!
18 inch alloys
half leather trim
6 speed box
climate etc.

its about 24k and if i oreder before june you get free servicing including brake components for 3 years or 60k.

only thing that worries me is the traction, with recent weather and i like following rallys the quattro i have now coped very well in the snow.

What sort of experiences did other BMW drivers have in the snow? should i just get chains with the car if i buy?

Lee

GaryC

Snow traction is no problem in a BMW as the DSC (traction control) is very good. I had a 330d and never had any problems in the snow. Add in very good low down torque, snow traction is fine.

As an aside - snow chains only work in >3" of snow, so unless you live in a nordic region, not much use

smanning

I drove both and opted for an A4 1.9TDI Quattro Sport. Dont drive the A4 without the sport pack.... its useless, but with it... its very surefooted.

You may not get the BHP either standard, but add a tuning box and it makes the world of difference.

IMHO Audi got more class these days anyway BMW Drivers all right lane hogging wannabe's

LEE P

Cheers chaps!

Thats reasuring gary! no not exactley nordic this way!

smanning i got the A3 1.9 Tdi sport quattro, wish id gone gone for the A4, more room and extra doors. but the A3 was well specced.
Just cant ever feel happy wth the gearchange and steering feed back, compared to the 3 series, which felt crisp and precise!

Lane hoggrs or not!

Lee

smanning

horses for courses my man.....

know what you mean though.

LEE P

Mind saying that im on my 5th Audi and only 1 BMW.

So i keep going back!

in recent snow in thee lakes my Tdi quattro pulled up some incredibly snowy inclines!

just feel the beemer wouldnt do it, and the snow ligged for days!

ill see if a 2.5/1.9tdi quattro A4 turns up with leather and 17 inch alloys, and then ill make up my mind.

Lee

smanning

i will get some pictures of mine up.... got the RS4 bodykit and the 17" 5 spoke alloys it looks like a monster... and its quick enough to give most standard cars a good hiding..

Didnt go for leather though, car seats for kids soon mess that up

George Sayers

Entirely the opposite experience to GaryC unfortunately. I have a 330D Sport (similar wheel/tyree combination to the 320D Sport) and it was shocking in the recent snow. More than about 2 inches of the white stuff and anything more than a slight gradient it would just sit there spinning wheels slowly with the DSC working overtime. I called my local BMW dealer after I had to abandon it the night before to enquire about snow chains. The response was that BMW doesn't recommend fitting snow chains to the 18" rims as they will foul the bodywork - fair enough? When I then enquired about snow/winter tyres, they responded by saying that they wouldn't fit them to the driving wheels!!

So now I am resigned to abandoning the car at the thought of snow and carrying a large shovel in the rear seats just in case I don't see the weather forecast!

I have never missed my Scoob as much as I did last week and seriously thought about the Audi TDI Quattro as I drove up a 1 in 3 gradient (1 1/2 miles in 1 1/2 hours).

Letter on the way now to BMW about fitness for purpose!!

GaryC

Problem probably more down to tyres. The 18" comes with a performance orientated tyre (usually Dunlop 9000s or Mich Sport), look nice, grippy in dry but 'V' tread design is crap in the snow. Replace (or spec from new) with some more allround tyres (I found the Dunlop SP2000s the best performance/cost option) and you will fair far better.

Also depends on driving style. If (and I'm not saying George does) you bury the throttle in a 'Traction control will sort it' way, you will go no-where. Set off in 2nd gear using the torque to move and the light won't even flicker on sheet ice let alone snow

If the 2 or 3 days out of 365 we get snow pose an enormous problem, get some separate wheels with snow tyres on Snow tyres on RWD will still perform far better than AWD with normal tyres.

The Audi's sound tempting with the psuedo-AWD, but the benefits that brings on the odd occaision you actually use/need AWD are way over-ruled by the far inferior ride, handling and numb/detached steering feel

I've looked at Audi's the last 4 times I have changed my car, each time really wanting to like them, but each time have been left unimpressed with the drive. Great build, nice (if bland, very germanic) styling but dynamically a league behind. Might only be a short term problem though.....AUDI have nicked half of BMW chassis/suspension design team. Decent driving Audi's could be returning...

GaryC

oh, and smanning - it's the drivers that position the car A lane hog will hog the lane regardless of the car

GaryC

Audi's handling is a league behind BMW (hence Audi have just nicked half the BMW chassis and suspension team ). The Audi sport may offer better handling than std BMW but that's hardly a comparison. Take std Vs std or Sport Vs Sport and the BMW will wipe the floor with the Audi's - as any road test (magazine or personal) will confirm but then the chassis/handling etc (along with Engines) is BMWs main strong points!

I suspect you are confusing traction with handling. AWD Audi's do have good traction, and accordingly will pull well out of corners. But their grip is not particularly good, the feedback you get as a driver is (I think) appalling, and you never get the 'planted' feel you do with a BMW or other cars, and they lack fluidity - very much down to RWD Vs FWD charachteristics. When driving an Audi, you feel like you are sitting 'on' it, when driving a BMW you feel like you sit 'in' it and are far more a part of the car.

Granted most of it is down to how good the chassis and suspension characteristics of BMWs are rather than the failings of Audi, but until the ex-BMW team's influence starts to show through, they can't hold a candle in that area! Build quality, Style (subjective), model diversity. etc perhaps, but the 'drive' they are still playing catch-up!

Try driving a std 320 and a std A4 2.0/1.8T (or both sports) back to back, you will see what I mean. I drove a 330i and 3.0 A4 back to back, and despite the Audi being 4 years newer (as a model), the BMW was a league ahead on the road. The A4 was better in other areas, but dynamics on the road were miles away. If you want to see how well a FWD saloon can handle, drive a 2.0 Alfa 156 with a 2.0 A4 and whilst the A4 is the overall better car by far, the handling of the Alfa is far better, far more fluid than the Audi - and even then still behind the BM in all but steering feel.

GaryC

M3? 330ci sport

My neighbour in a 2.5TDI couldn't keep up with me in my 330d on straights or on the twisties...and mine was an 1800kg automatic estate

Surely you don't want to buy a car that you need to understand (it weaknesses?) to make it competitive? why not just get a competitve car form the on set. Same level of understanding/knowledge will just make the better car even stronger

Audi's are a great cars, but if you are buying a car for the (sporty) drive and overall performance driving experience, the Audi will fall down.

chiark

Very interesting, this. Am wondering about a 1.9tdi quattro, or a 320d, or a wrx wagon.

After driving an A4 quattro 2.5tdi with sports pack, I think the WRX wagon annihilates it, but at the expense of fuel costs . Performance isn't a much of a gap as I'd expected at all, but on the other hand, the audi doesn't feel like it's going quickly - the experience is unbelievably detached, which I didn't enjoy. Really disappointing, but I was expecting a lot I suppose.

The snow and image thing puts me off the BMW, which is a bit silly... I ought to try one, but I can't see myself owning one which is sort of "anti snobbish".

I just wish there was a way of making the WRX economical at the flick of a switch, then flicking the switch the other way for when you didn't want 30+ mpg

smanning

well no, I think an M3 or 330 is harly a fair comparison, however in the backlanes it is less about the amount of boot, and more about your level of ***** (especially if you come face to face with a tractor)

Also, I would win a race against an M3 if my mum was driving it... you cant compare against your neighbour unless he has similar driving standards / styles to you

We could go on all day about which is better in this and that.... I nearly had a 330 except they was more expensive, more to insure and service, and it felt like a tin can compared to the Audi which is much better built IMHO, but then its up to what you want. I daresay I may consider a 330 next time around for a change although they seem to be the new "mondeo" on the roads these days Plus you still cant get AWD and after 2 scoobies and haveing links to the middle of nowhere its not nice to be without

George Sayers

And you thought IM was bad!! This is my response from BMW to my fitness for purpose poser:

"Dear Mr Sayers
Thank you for your e-mail.
I am sorry that you are unhappy with the handling of your vehicle in the snow.

The dealer was correct in its information to you. Snow chains cannot be fitted to vehicles that have the lowered sports suspension due to the lack of clearance between the wheel and the arch.

Snow tyres have never been imported into this country as the tyre makers have never pursued this option. It seems that they do not believe that it is a requirement for the weather in the UK.

There is also a handling problem if snow tyres are used away from bad weather conditions.

I am afraid that in adverse weather conditions most vehicles will have handling problems due to the fact that the vehicle cannot grip the road.

We build our vehicles to operate in most weather conditions but I am sure that you can appreciate that we cannot offer advice as to a possible solution to this matter."

Good job I don't live in Scandanavia!!

LEE P

Well after reading some very interesting points, my heart says beemer for the chassis and driver feedback etc.

But my head says audi for practical daily driving for me.

i do 35k a year mostly round cumbria and the lakes, and believe me once its snowed it can be there for a week, untreated back lanes with little traffic and direct sunlight.

i also follow rallys so i need to park or cross a muddy field which the audis have done succesfully.

But another point is when we go skiing its compulsary that you have chains in the alps by law, so what would i do with my 18inh alloys??

i really would like a BMW but it probably wouldny suity my lifestyle?? maybe next time.

smaning get some pics up of your motor!

Have you had the suspension uprated or is it just the standard quattro sport? mine a A3 quattro sport but they said you can get lowering springs for them?? or should i get some H&R or Eibach for it?? then it will be the 17 inch alloys....chipped...he we go again!

Lee

zax

A friend drives a 330d wagon. It's fitted with snow tyres (of the non-studded variety) on 17" winter alloys and it drives very well in the snow/ice. On greasy/wet/frosty roads you may also find them better. Tyres like this don't compromise handling to the extent that you can't use them when it's not snowy, but they will wear more quickly. On dry roads they will lose grip sooner than summer tyres, but will do so very progressively. I'm sure you must be able to get hold of them somewhere in the UK, a guy on the Honda forum picked up some Pirelli snowsports for his CTR...

Never tried a 320d, but the 330 is fantastic. I'd have one tomorrow, coupe style please

smanning

Lee...

got hold of the camera late last night, hopefully I will take some tonight and get them loaded up tomorrow.

you will like

smanning

By the way Lee I havent Modified the suspension. It is just the standard Sports pack on it. I have put a Tuning Box on it, and it has now done 12000 miles worth of motorway runs... 250 miles a go. I dont use it in the week, just weekends.

If you can the chance to experiment you will notice how car you can push them. They are a big car get them in a car park and start weaving around some cones and although it will feel like a fairground ride its surprising! Suspension much better than my MY00. At least the wheelarches wont rub when you push it around a roundabout

I had enough of paying the high premiums on modified cars although it didnt make a difference yesterday though when i came to renew. Direct Line charged me £173 more because of the bodykit and non standard alloys.... the theiving b&stards

LEE P

Smanning that would be cool! the bodykit sounds the dogs!

Ive pushed my A3 a fair bit, it does corner well, im on my 5th audi so ive learnt to trust the steering! just throw it in and it goes round, i think the awd is better than the scoob, it seems to adjust its self better and stops it pushing the nose wide.
Not really noticed much understeer with on road use anyway.

Had abit pof chase down the backlanes with my bro in his 320i and dumped him by a big margin. i think lowering springs and 17inch alloys would just tighten it up nicely and make it look abit meaner!

I was so tempted to buy the S3 but like you say its higher preminums and fuel consumption, which i cant be arsed with anymore.

My savings are going on my track Gti project for the summer and probably go towards a holiday too!
Saved 750 quid over the scoob on running costs in a 3 month period

zax the tyres you mention sound fab, imagine them on a 4wd!

Lee

zax

They help a lot Used Nokian studded tyres on my scoob... not the best picture, but you get the idea:

smanning

zax... nice motor.

Lee will psot them up asap.

LEE P

smanning wheres the pics at???

I test drove a A4 2.5Tdi quattro sport he othr day, very nice very quick and you could push on fairly effortless on the back roads.

Think thats the way i might go next.

Our lass is after a 5door A3 so i might chop mine in and her Rover 200 in for a A3 and A4. wont the neighbours be talking then.

Lee

smanning

Lee,

I now have pics, so I can send them to you direct, or if someone can tell me where i can upload them for free then i will put them on here.

BTW, how old is your A3.... mail me some details and pics as I know someone looking for an a3 quattro.

smanning

ok here goes.....
img]http://upload.turbosport.co.uk/getpic2.asp?File=2003215121959747921.JPG[/img]

LEE P

Nice one smanning!

looks mean with that kit on! the 17 inch alloys are a must i think!

i mail you some details! after watching right car wrong car i now have permission to get a TT as long as we have a sensible car, i.e the 5 door A3.

Lee

smanning

You have mail back.....

Audi TT ..... now you have gone and spoilt it, they are for posers

gregjd

Hi Lee

Have you found anyone who will give you a price on importing a 320d Sport Touring? I may go down this route..I fancied a 330d sport but it came out a bit over my budget..

George Sayers

The guy I used to import my 330D Sport was called Peter Stevens from EU Car Imports. Got a good deal financially - mail me offline if you need some feedback/advice.

George

kilkennyman

Try www.carimportsolutions.co.uk

I used them to import my 330D Sport Touring and found them very good and competitive. With regards to snow my house is on a severe slope in Scotland and after a recent flurry i struggled to get up the slope and definitely would not have made it only for the fact that i switched the DSC function off, this is recommended in the manual when driving in severe snow or race track type conditions, last year i struggled up the slope in my wrx which i expected to breexe up it which was disappointing.

Also the new model 3.0 Diesels are up from 184 bhp to 204 bhp.

Hope this is of help