Cooper S v Clio 172 v 206GTi v Civic Type R v ??
11 November 2002, 12:02 PM
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ok my better half is looking to change her car....
previously had a saxo vts (and does not want another one although with the VAT being knocked off them atm they are quite a bargain!) and currently got an mg tf. but wants to move back to a hot hatch....
she test drove a 172 cup yesterday and was impressed. so the standard 172 is next on the list and a real possible choice. also 14.6k for a new one seems quite reasonable compared to most other cars in this bracket as its very well equipped as standard. and delivery in 5 weeks.
yet to test drive anything else but the above says the sorts of cars being considered....
does not have to be brand new but looking for it to be no more than 15k.
looking for a car which is reasonable on mpg as she does 60 miles a day to work and back, insurance, servicing intervals/costs etc. (hence y i cant persuade her to get a scooby !
)
anyone recommend the above or suggest possible alternatives that you've got or have driven.
we're hoping to get a cooper s test drive by the weekend but i understand that these are rather hard to come by and there is a lengthy waiting list !
Also would be interested in experiences of the dealers you've had as i'm hearing some less than wonderful opinions of some.....
steve
previously had a saxo vts (and does not want another one although with the VAT being knocked off them atm they are quite a bargain!) and currently got an mg tf. but wants to move back to a hot hatch....
she test drove a 172 cup yesterday and was impressed. so the standard 172 is next on the list and a real possible choice. also 14.6k for a new one seems quite reasonable compared to most other cars in this bracket as its very well equipped as standard. and delivery in 5 weeks.
yet to test drive anything else but the above says the sorts of cars being considered....
does not have to be brand new but looking for it to be no more than 15k.
looking for a car which is reasonable on mpg as she does 60 miles a day to work and back, insurance, servicing intervals/costs etc. (hence y i cant persuade her to get a scooby !
)anyone recommend the above or suggest possible alternatives that you've got or have driven.
we're hoping to get a cooper s test drive by the weekend but i understand that these are rather hard to come by and there is a lengthy waiting list !
Also would be interested in experiences of the dealers you've had as i'm hearing some less than wonderful opinions of some.....
steve
11 November 2002, 12:25 PM
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If she is performance orientated then its got to be the type-r IMHO. As you no doubt are aware I had a VTS and have some 172 experience. Whilst the 172 is way more torquey than the saxo when you wind them both right up there isn't a massive difference (cup will be better). The type-r blew me away though and is a cracking hot-hatch IMO. I've heard mixed reports on fuel economy for the R and that will be a consideration at 60 miles a day. 172 has useful mpg I'm told so may be a good compromise.....still french though!
11 November 2002, 01:04 PM
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Unless big rear space and boot space are paramount (Assume not given current MG), then, having driven them all, my money would be on a Cooper S. Pretty much as quick as the best, but far more fun and far better built, plus more cache and infinitly better residuals.
11 November 2002, 01:17 PM
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I'm biased, but I get a big smile on my face every time I drive my Cooper S. I can't stop driving it, 7000 miles in 4 months. All BMW garages have a demonstrator to test, get down there and go for a drive.
It's not as fast as my mates Type-R, but he hates driving in the wet (big traction problems) and he says he doesn't like the look of it anymore.
Andy
It's not as fast as my mates Type-R, but he hates driving in the wet (big traction problems) and he says he doesn't like the look of it anymore.
Andy
11 November 2002, 01:38 PM
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thanks guys.....keep the comment / recommendations coming.....
wot about a diesel ???
i now drive one isntead of a scoob and i test drove a couple of quick ones....
Golf 130 and 150 obviously spring to mind ?
Others which could be considered to give nippy turn of speed and 40+ mpg ?
Cooper S is 6 months to wait. Demos all seem rather highly specced
ie one local dealer has one but want 19k for it
will check trade sales out later though.
steve
wot about a diesel ???
i now drive one isntead of a scoob and i test drove a couple of quick ones....
Golf 130 and 150 obviously spring to mind ?
Others which could be considered to give nippy turn of speed and 40+ mpg ?
Cooper S is 6 months to wait. Demos all seem rather highly specced
ie one local dealer has one but want 19k for it
will check trade sales out later though.
steve
11 November 2002, 01:43 PM
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When you buy a Renualt you have to use Renault dealers, thats a bad thing!
Read what Evo mag have to day about there long term 172.
The Type R would get my vote.
Read what Evo mag have to day about there long term 172.
The Type R would get my vote.
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11 November 2002, 01:50 PM
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I can't comment on the Cooper, but my brother has a CTR and a mate has the Clio Cup out of the 2 I would go for the Civic, engine note sounds much nicer, nicer interior i.e nice sports seats in front, engines supposed to be bomb proof and of course it's Japanese which counts for a lot with me!!
11 November 2002, 04:23 PM
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Well I'm going to go against the tide here and cast my vote for the 206GTi. I'm on my second after having an Impreza in between, and IMHO after test driving the CTR and Clio (and being seriously tempted!) mentioned above, it was the one that overall, appealled the most to me.
Likes - Interior, torque, looks (especially with a few subtle mods
) Handles very well and mostly under-rated - although Autocar voted it the best GTi as all time 
Seem to recall it did very well in a recent group test against the competiton too
Dislikes - Looks (as standard), doesn't sound very special ( especially coming from a decatted Scooby!), sits far too high as standard.
Err - probably come up with some other things if I thought about it!
Here's a couple of pics of mine anyway
Likes - Interior, torque, looks (especially with a few subtle mods
) Handles very well and mostly under-rated - although Autocar voted it the best GTi as all time Seem to recall it did very well in a recent group test against the competiton tooDislikes - Looks (as standard), doesn't sound very special ( especially coming from a decatted Scooby!), sits far too high as standard.
Err - probably come up with some other things if I thought about it!
Here's a couple of pics of mine anyway
11 November 2002, 04:26 PM
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Out of the Box the 206 GTi is a tad quicker than the Cooper S due to lower weight (1030kg), but build quality ain't as good, nor are the plastics in the interior. They are well specced though & pretty underrated. If you're buying new, might be an idea to wait & see the 206 GTi 180 reviews, and how that car fares.
Failing that, Type-R for me. Very good all-rounder imo.
Failing that, Type-R for me. Very good all-rounder imo.
11 November 2002, 04:50 PM
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Don't want to start a fight but IMO based on my experiences and stuff I've read in mags and on the net, etc the 206 GTI's performance figures are a little favourable. Out of the cars mentioned I think you'll find in straight sprinting terms that the 206 and Cooper S are the slowest.
Bottom line is they'll all be very close anyway - only the type-r could give the others a bit of a roasting.
Bottom line is they'll all be very close anyway - only the type-r could give the others a bit of a roasting.
11 November 2002, 05:05 PM
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cheers guys.
we were not impressed with the 206. cant say i know its 0-60 or in gear times but its doesn't hit u with a buy me when u see it.
anyone got the figures ? also wot does one cost ? i not seen anything to say wot the likely cost of a 180 is to be either ?
standard 172 is the favourite. also found a 2nd hand one - may 2000 with only 7k on the clock for 12k ? sounds ok ?
i favour the CTR but i think this will be the most expensive to run? and insure....grp 17 ?
pics look good Gza.
oh and Jon..............get lost u sad skoda man
i have just arrived in warrington and am still working whilst u no doubt went home ages ago
we were not impressed with the 206. cant say i know its 0-60 or in gear times but its doesn't hit u with a buy me when u see it.
anyone got the figures ? also wot does one cost ? i not seen anything to say wot the likely cost of a 180 is to be either ?
standard 172 is the favourite. also found a 2nd hand one - may 2000 with only 7k on the clock for 12k ? sounds ok ?
i favour the CTR but i think this will be the most expensive to run? and insure....grp 17 ?
pics look good Gza.
oh and Jon..............get lost u sad skoda man
i have just arrived in warrington and am still working whilst u no doubt went home ages ago
11 November 2002, 05:08 PM
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Bottom line is they'll all be very close anyway
11 November 2002, 05:11 PM
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Exactly, in the VTS if you changed up too early or hit the limiter it would easily make that much of a difference to the performance stats. The type-r will be particularly prone to such driver error given that you need to change up about 0.00001 of a millisecond before the rev limiter to stay in the VTEC zone 
11 November 2002, 05:13 PM
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Think you can pick up a GTi for around £13k brand new now, and the GTi 180 will be £15k when Peugeot get their finger out and release it around March next year.
FWIW 206 GTI does 0-60 anywhere between 7.1 and 8.5 depending on which magazine you read. Evo have it at 7.4 to 60. Autocar got 7.1 on their long-termer which had around 20k on the clock. Can't remember any in gear figs off the top of my head
FWIW 206 GTI does 0-60 anywhere between 7.1 and 8.5 depending on which magazine you read. Evo have it at 7.4 to 60. Autocar got 7.1 on their long-termer which had around 20k on the clock. Can't remember any in gear figs off the top of my head
11 November 2002, 05:27 PM
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206 GTI is no where near as quick as the Cooper S. Similar weight, but the Cooper S has 30% more more and 40% more torque - yes you can mod the 206 blah...blah...blah but you can but you can mod the CooperS to 200bhp just as easy through Hartage/John Cooper/Superchips.
The GTi180 will redress the balance but will be £500 more, and almost £1500 more when you balance the spec - and residuals will be no where near as strong.
The Cooper may not be the outright fastest, or be able to post the fastest time - but for sheer chuckable fun, it can't be beaten!
The GTi180 will redress the balance but will be £500 more, and almost £1500 more when you balance the spec - and residuals will be no where near as strong.
The Cooper may not be the outright fastest, or be able to post the fastest time - but for sheer chuckable fun, it can't be beaten!
11 November 2002, 05:28 PM
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I think either of the cars you have suggested are pretty good. I drive a Clio Cup, and it's pretty good, but unless you are a track day nut, I'd stick with the standard 172. I also like the CTR a lot, I think it is the daddy.
11 November 2002, 07:08 PM
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Okay my penneth
Owned 206 GTI - okay but not special - torquey but not quick, driving position not great - never get a comfy seating position, brakes a bit too snatchy long through gear change and too much body roll. Nice all round car but not a true GTi sold ours after 5 months.
Civic Type R - not driven one (have tried standard Civic which liked alot) trouble is Type R is more than 3.5k more than the car I bought and no faster and reputed not to handle as well (summary out of my budget so didnt look)...
Clio Cup 172 - owned for 2 weeks now and really keen on it. Lacks Civics build quality but v zippy and got a bit of rarity and handling is a real treat. Some mags tested the Cup quicker than the CTR. For a glowing review see this months EVO
Cooper S. Sorry but fraid I found it much less fun compared to the Clio IMHO. Not in same league acceleration wise. Feels v solid though and steering is great. Trouble is doesnt inspire as an overall package.
Clio 172. Like Cup but marginally slower nicer equipment but steering is less sharp and not as well weighted.
To sum up no one car is better than rest all good in one way or other its down to the indiv at the end of the day. Good luck!
[Edited by wilf - 11/11/2002 7:11:16 PM]
Owned 206 GTI - okay but not special - torquey but not quick, driving position not great - never get a comfy seating position, brakes a bit too snatchy long through gear change and too much body roll. Nice all round car but not a true GTi sold ours after 5 months.
Civic Type R - not driven one (have tried standard Civic which liked alot) trouble is Type R is more than 3.5k more than the car I bought and no faster and reputed not to handle as well (summary out of my budget so didnt look)...
Clio Cup 172 - owned for 2 weeks now and really keen on it. Lacks Civics build quality but v zippy and got a bit of rarity and handling is a real treat. Some mags tested the Cup quicker than the CTR. For a glowing review see this months EVO
Cooper S. Sorry but fraid I found it much less fun compared to the Clio IMHO. Not in same league acceleration wise. Feels v solid though and steering is great. Trouble is doesnt inspire as an overall package.
Clio 172. Like Cup but marginally slower nicer equipment but steering is less sharp and not as well weighted.
To sum up no one car is better than rest all good in one way or other its down to the indiv at the end of the day. Good luck!
[Edited by wilf - 11/11/2002 7:11:16 PM]
11 November 2002, 09:32 PM
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There's no right or wrong car here, they are all great in their own way, at the end of the day, it comes down to personal taste.
Whichever car she buys, she's onto a winner.
My Cooper S was £16340, that was for the standard car with : Xenons, 1/2 Leather trim, 17" S Spoke's, Air Con, Dynamic Stability Control and 5 years/50000 miles servicing.
I waited 9 months for my car, so got one of the very first in the UK, Looking back now I would still go back and buy the same car again.
Andy
Whichever car she buys, she's onto a winner.
My Cooper S was £16340, that was for the standard car with : Xenons, 1/2 Leather trim, 17" S Spoke's, Air Con, Dynamic Stability Control and 5 years/50000 miles servicing.
I waited 9 months for my car, so got one of the very first in the UK, Looking back now I would still go back and buy the same car again.
Andy
11 November 2002, 09:35 PM
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Have a butchers at my Cooper S some pics here http://www.angrybeats.co.uk
I drove a number of cars before deciding on my Cooper S, Both the Clio & CTR are cracking cars IMO
Ok the Cooper S is not the fastest, far from it but for me it had a great package, having coming from a TVR Cerbera I felt I needed something which I could use daily, give me lots of fun without losing my licence. 5 years free servicing & 3 years warranty
Not everyone likes the MINI, retro interior / exterior etc. but it is a great drive. Gives you confidence in attacking the twistes. The packaging of the MINI is pretty poor to be honest, lots of room for the passenger / driver and not much for the back seat passengers. One of the reasons why the boot space is limited was due to the Z axle multi link suspension that is carried over from the 3 series.
The supercharger does sound like your in reverse when your giving it some but the exhaust note makes up for it. Its very torquey and unlike the CTR you can make rapid progressive without thrashing it.
Drive them all thats the only way to decide, way up the pros & cons.
I'm taking mine to Donnington through Bookatrack February and want to thrash it.
[Edited by mnangrybeats - 11/11/2002 9:39:17 PM]
I drove a number of cars before deciding on my Cooper S, Both the Clio & CTR are cracking cars IMO
Ok the Cooper S is not the fastest, far from it but for me it had a great package, having coming from a TVR Cerbera I felt I needed something which I could use daily, give me lots of fun without losing my licence. 5 years free servicing & 3 years warranty
Not everyone likes the MINI, retro interior / exterior etc. but it is a great drive. Gives you confidence in attacking the twistes. The packaging of the MINI is pretty poor to be honest, lots of room for the passenger / driver and not much for the back seat passengers. One of the reasons why the boot space is limited was due to the Z axle multi link suspension that is carried over from the 3 series.
The supercharger does sound like your in reverse when your giving it some but the exhaust note makes up for it. Its very torquey and unlike the CTR you can make rapid progressive without thrashing it.
Drive them all thats the only way to decide, way up the pros & cons.
I'm taking mine to Donnington through Bookatrack February and want to thrash it.
[Edited by mnangrybeats - 11/11/2002 9:39:17 PM]
11 November 2002, 09:49 PM
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Just found this interesting article
Still haven't worked out how to make links clickable, but this is an Evo test of.....
Focus RS vs Cooper S vs Impreza WRX vs Clio Cup
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/roadtest/evo_roadtest_story.php?id=29870
Andy
Still haven't worked out how to make links clickable, but this is an Evo test of.....
Focus RS vs Cooper S vs Impreza WRX vs Clio Cup
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/roadtest/evo_roadtest_story.php?id=29870
Andy
12 November 2002, 09:59 AM
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here tis.....
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/roadtes...y.php?id=29870
cheers for the comments guys all very useful.
planning on test driving the cooper s on sunday. also hopefully the CTR.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/roadtes...y.php?id=29870
cheers for the comments guys all very useful.
planning on test driving the cooper s on sunday. also hopefully the CTR.
12 November 2002, 03:31 PM
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Steve
After driving a 172 and a CTR hard, i would say the 172 handles best. I love my 172, its great. Although the problem is the dealers as they (IMHO) are sh1te. It is also well equipped with climate control, etc.
As for fuel economy, i recently drove to Southport from Bracknell in the CTR and have done the same journey in my 172 many times and th2 172 is more economic. I get about 37mpg at 80-85mph as opposed to about 32/33 from the Civic.
Dave
After driving a 172 and a CTR hard, i would say the 172 handles best. I love my 172, its great. Although the problem is the dealers as they (IMHO) are sh1te. It is also well equipped with climate control, etc.
As for fuel economy, i recently drove to Southport from Bracknell in the CTR and have done the same journey in my 172 many times and th2 172 is more economic. I get about 37mpg at 80-85mph as opposed to about 32/33 from the Civic.
Dave
