Fiat get down on their knees....
11 October 2002, 06:12 PM
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I have a Punto 55SX - its driving position is like sitting at the Dinner table waiting for desert. I just cant get comfortable.
I've owned Uno Turbo - pronouce 'Oh-NO!' Nuff said.
I've driven a Cinque Sporting - strangely cheap motoring experience - the dash is pure minging, what about those heater controls. Looks like when your kids sticks some quality street sweets on the end and then Fiat put them in the 'heater control' plastic mold.
They are Italian - therefore tempramental and costly for what they are.
Thank god they have fantastic women in Italy to make up for Fiat.
[Edited by Marky-San - 11/10/2002 6:13:17 PM]
I've owned Uno Turbo - pronouce 'Oh-NO!' Nuff said.
I've driven a Cinque Sporting - strangely cheap motoring experience - the dash is pure minging, what about those heater controls. Looks like when your kids sticks some quality street sweets on the end and then Fiat put them in the 'heater control' plastic mold.
They are Italian - therefore tempramental and costly for what they are.
Thank god they have fantastic women in Italy to make up for Fiat.
[Edited by Marky-San - 11/10/2002 6:13:17 PM]
11 October 2002, 06:34 PM
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Modern Alfa build quaility isn't bad but the Fiat/Alfa dealers are crap.
There isn't much in " NEW " Ford / Alfa / Subaru biuld quality in my opinion and I have owned all three in the last three years. Alfa did have a problem with the Connect system in the early 147's and the early selespeeds.
Its the dealers that make the difference, have a small problem in the Scoob and its sorted no problem. The same problem in an Alfa and you will be ringing the dealers for weeks and then it'll have to go in three times before its fixed properly. One guy on the Alfa BBS had a gearbox problem, the car broke down 14 times before the dealers found a dodgy actuator. The part isn't expensive and is easy to find but the dealers couldn't be bothered so have destroyed the ownership experience and have lost a future customer.
Ford are better but still have a long way to go.
It doesn't matter how good the product is if you have no backup.
Alfa is still making profit but needs to split from the Fiat dealer network. GM has said it wants to split Alfa into a separate brand. Personaly I hope they do.
Just hope GM allows the separate brands to produce its own cars like Ford does with its brands.
If they go down the same route as VAG and just turn out versions of the same car it will mean the Alfa 157 will be a rebadged Vectra and will be a complete sales disaster.
Lee
[Edited by logiclee - 11/10/2002 6:36:33 PM]
There isn't much in " NEW " Ford / Alfa / Subaru biuld quality in my opinion and I have owned all three in the last three years. Alfa did have a problem with the Connect system in the early 147's and the early selespeeds.
Its the dealers that make the difference, have a small problem in the Scoob and its sorted no problem. The same problem in an Alfa and you will be ringing the dealers for weeks and then it'll have to go in three times before its fixed properly. One guy on the Alfa BBS had a gearbox problem, the car broke down 14 times before the dealers found a dodgy actuator. The part isn't expensive and is easy to find but the dealers couldn't be bothered so have destroyed the ownership experience and have lost a future customer.
Ford are better but still have a long way to go.
It doesn't matter how good the product is if you have no backup.
Alfa is still making profit but needs to split from the Fiat dealer network. GM has said it wants to split Alfa into a separate brand. Personaly I hope they do.
Just hope GM allows the separate brands to produce its own cars like Ford does with its brands.
If they go down the same route as VAG and just turn out versions of the same car it will mean the Alfa 157 will be a rebadged Vectra and will be a complete sales disaster.
Lee
[Edited by logiclee - 11/10/2002 6:36:33 PM]
07 November 2002, 06:01 PM
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You would need to be a begger to want to buy one of their sheds. Awful quality cars across both the Alfa and Fiat range withy no exceptions. Can't wait for GM to buy them personally LOL next year Vauxhall will be the world F1 constructor's champion's. And I will be able to laugh at people in their Vauxhall Enzo's. Oh dear the stigma attached to owning a Ferrari isn't that just a souped up Vx220 mate.
07 November 2002, 06:37 PM
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I had to laugh at Clarkson on TG.
First, he complains that F1 is dull because Ferrari just win everything.
Then, he talks about how much trouble Fiat are in because nobody's buying their cars. He begs us to go out and buy a Fiat, because otherwise they'll have to spin off the productive bits, so General Motors gets Ferrari.
The answer is simple - DON'T buy a Fiat, LET them flog Ferrari to GM, then F1 becomes worth watching
A.
First, he complains that F1 is dull because Ferrari just win everything.
Then, he talks about how much trouble Fiat are in because nobody's buying their cars. He begs us to go out and buy a Fiat, because otherwise they'll have to spin off the productive bits, so General Motors gets Ferrari.
The answer is simple - DON'T buy a Fiat, LET them flog Ferrari to GM, then F1 becomes worth watching
A.
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07 November 2002, 07:13 PM
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Sorry but if you've ever driven many Fiats you'll know how good they actually are. I've had 3 and loved every one. Far more fun to drive than most of the bland eurodrivel.
AllanB
AllanB
07 November 2002, 09:35 PM
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"Awful quality cars across both the Alfa and Fiat range withy no exceptions"
have you owned them all then!! That is a sweeping generalisatio and although the build quality in a 147 is not as good as a Golf (i've owned both) it is still above "awful" and is damn site better to drive as well.As for the Stilo,you can say what you like for me,its utter shyte (not owned,just being a tad general)
have you owned them all then!! That is a sweeping generalisatio and although the build quality in a 147 is not as good as a Golf (i've owned both) it is still above "awful" and is damn site better to drive as well.As for the Stilo,you can say what you like for me,its utter shyte (not owned,just being a tad general
)
08 November 2002, 07:13 AM
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Agreed, the styling is not very adventurous is it ! But who can say the Golf is anything but dull to look at and drive. Yes I've driven many miles in all Mks from 2 onwards.
AllanB
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08 November 2002, 07:16 AM
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Allan: I learned to drive in my mum's Panda - 900cc's of pure nastiness.
Believe me, if you'd ever been through that, you'd never even consider a Fiat again. How any company could produce a machine that slow, noisy, unstable or uncomfortable is beyond me
At least my first car wasn't a Justy - it would have been sad if I'd ended up feeling the same way about Subaru...
A.
Believe me, if you'd ever been through that, you'd never even consider a Fiat again. How any company could produce a machine that slow, noisy, unstable or uncomfortable is beyond me
At least my first car wasn't a Justy - it would have been sad if I'd ended up feeling the same way about Subaru...
A.
09 November 2002, 01:16 AM
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Agree with AllanB. Drove a Bravo for five years, terrific car, no problems at all. Looked at a Stilo but too much like a German car (eg. Golf) for me. Fiat need to do a Renault with more cars like the Coupe (no German manufacturer would have produced a car like that at the time). In the end bought an Impreza WRX, ugly but fantastic.
Most modern cars are good, it's just what suits you at the time.
Most modern cars are good, it's just what suits you at the time.
09 November 2002, 10:51 AM
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fiat only own half of ferrari, not all of it.
I think if things werent going the way ferrari wanted, they could probably buy themselves back out.
Cant see ferrari going under in the near future with their waiting lists and experience enabling them to fulfill the orders.
I think if things werent going the way ferrari wanted, they could probably buy themselves back out.
Cant see ferrari going under in the near future with their waiting lists and experience enabling them to fulfill the orders.
10 November 2002, 12:11 AM
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'German cars are overpriced and overrated. Discuss?'
Same could be said of Scoobies (at least where running costs are concerned). You could also generalise that 'Jap cars are bland and cheaply made' and not be any wider of the mark.
Yes, most German cars do not interest the sort of people who use Scoobynet etc., but that could be said of cars from any single nation.
My experience of Italian cars is limited to a few hired Cinquecentos and Puntos (the latter weren't too bad), a Tipo I took as a p/x once and kept for 10 days and an Alfa 164 that I used for a few months and is still on my drive now.
I've only once experienced worse service than from Alfa / Fiat dealers, and that was Exeter's Subaru dealer, who would have been the subject of a complaint to IM had I not sold the car. I'm not planning to buy Italian or Japanese again any time soon.
Fen
Same could be said of Scoobies (at least where running costs are concerned). You could also generalise that 'Jap cars are bland and cheaply made' and not be any wider of the mark.
Yes, most German cars do not interest the sort of people who use Scoobynet etc., but that could be said of cars from any single nation.
My experience of Italian cars is limited to a few hired Cinquecentos and Puntos (the latter weren't too bad), a Tipo I took as a p/x once and kept for 10 days and an Alfa 164 that I used for a few months and is still on my drive now.
I've only once experienced worse service than from Alfa / Fiat dealers, and that was Exeter's Subaru dealer, who would have been the subject of a complaint to IM had I not sold the car. I'm not planning to buy Italian or Japanese again any time soon.
Fen
10 November 2002, 07:53 PM
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"They are Italian - therefore tempramental and costly for what they are"
I hope u are refering to the cars and not to Italians, there's nothing tempramental and costly about me!!! LOL
I hope fiat pull through, they had to shut a factory in Sicily down last month which isnt a good sign. Ive never owned a fiat but my dad has had a few and my bro has got a punto at the moment, none have been too much trouble, my uncle won a ralley in the early 80's with a Fiat 131.
I hope u are refering to the cars and not to Italians, there's nothing tempramental and costly about me!!! LOL
I hope fiat pull through, they had to shut a factory in Sicily down last month which isnt a good sign. Ive never owned a fiat but my dad has had a few and my bro has got a punto at the moment, none have been too much trouble, my uncle won a ralley in the early 80's with a Fiat 131.
10 November 2002, 09:27 PM
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F - faster
I - in
A - a
T - taxi
The thing the lets a FIAT down more than anything else is it dealer network. Absolute rubbish.
I've owned 4 FIATs including a 20V Turbo Coupe and the rush you get from the huge T28 Garrett Turbo is emense. Quicker 100mph than a Scoob.
I - in
A - a
T - taxi
The thing the lets a FIAT down more than anything else is it dealer network. Absolute rubbish.
I've owned 4 FIATs including a 20V Turbo Coupe and the rush you get from the huge T28 Garrett Turbo is emense. Quicker 100mph than a Scoob.
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