HuggyB

I read this forum with a pinch of salt most of the time. As a rule of thumb it seems that the Cossies are the best in a straight line, Mitsi's are the best A to B and on circuits. Scoobies are user friendly and you can be quite quick from the word go.

We seem to forget that there is one car that has very similar capabilities to the above cars, but has gone down is history as greater than them all.

The Lancia Integrale!

I'm not say that it is better than any of the above, but some aspects still (IMHO)haven't been improved upon.

Whilst advancements in servicing accessibility, shell strength and power distribution have been improved upon, there STILL hasn't been a manufacturer that has replicated the Integrale's steering feedback (although the Evo 6.5 is close)and thus driver satisfaction.

The last WRC win of the Integrale was in Argentina 1995, this was 4 years after Lancia stopped development. This is an amazing accomplishment.

And still the legend continues, read about it here. WRC Scoobies and Group A evo 6's get a pasting by the old timer in 2002!!

Without all the fancy computerised differentials in rallying, the foundations of what the Integrale is, still lives on in the newer Japanesese contenders, and all the evolutions(Subaru& Mitsubishi) in the world can't escape this fundamental fact.

Let's discuss.

RB5320

yes. fantastic car. in my experience, very much like Italian women - beautiful, wonderful curves, great performance, handle superbly but difficult to live with on a daily basis, unreliable and prone to braking down without warning.

disclaimer - "the above is based on personal experience only and no offence is intended or implied to any Lancia owner"

HuggyB

I've had my 1994 EVO 2 for 3.5 years and the only time it broke down was when the clutch cylinder bracket snapped. Maybe either i'm lucky or you were very unlucky.

As a sidenote i've seen two 22b's (and several wrx scoobies)broke down with major engine problems at trackdays. So let's discuss a little more.

davyboy

The Audi Quattro is the Daddy in case you forgot.

RONAN

All these cars have their strengths and weakneses but at the end of the day its the man behind the wheel!!

HuggyB

Davyboy, not in terms of WRC victories!!!

HuggyB

Ronan,

Agreed! I was just stating the case for the 'Grale.

323GTR

This is true in a lot of ways, but look at the WRC and F1. At this level, the cars can make the difference. At any point in time, there tends to be one car that is better than the others, and only a very talented driver can overcome the difference. Currently Ferrari have the best F1 car, and Peugeot have the best WRC car. When the most talented driver drives the best car, the rest of the field might as well stay at home.

Quattros, Integrales, Scoobies, Evos, all great cars IMO, just with slightly different character. You pays yer money...

mozzaITA

100% right about Italian Women!!! lol

Evotion

It actualy does surprise me that with the looks, heritage, pedigree and talent of the late integrale Evolutions that if you can find a mint one... why ANYONE would buy a Subaru or Mitsubishi..

Therein lies the problem..

As Quentin Wilson said on Top Gear when saying the integrale is better than the ,latest then, Subaru... 'finding a good integrale is like scooping up air into a heap'

If you find it though, It will be worth it .

DazW

iTrader: (1)

Mr Owens, is that you lurking again!?!

DazW

'94 White GT4 ST205 WRC JDM

Dream Weaver

Love Integrales, but for me, and IMHO there is one problem:

LHD - hate it

Colonel Mullet

Evotion, correct me if I am wrong but having the steering wheel on the correct side may be one fairly important reason for taking the Subaru/Mitsubishi route?

Colonel Mullet

Sorry Dreamweaver - beat me to it! Flood control, my ****...

Evotion

Actually there are a few reasons really... :-)

Overall reliabilty is another. There are places where you can get up to 3 year waranties in integrales which might help someone worried about a big bang.

This LHD thing, well, I can understand the hesitation but its mostly a myth.

Its mainly a case of getting used to it and then theres no differnce in the drving.

The only real downside is that in SOME situations overtaking is more hazardous. If youre coming up to a car at speed it makes no difference. If youre stuck right behind a tall, van on a narrow road its nasty and you would either pull back or look down the inside if possible to see if its clear.

Countering that. On a motorway its better.
Assuming youre in the fast lane (mostly the case with me) you cannot overtake to the right. Being on the LHS you have a great view of whats ahead in BOTH lanes. This is excellent for safety because you can invariably see more cars and what is happening up front.
Not many people realise that.

So overall I would say its mostly bollocksa and most importantly, certainly not a good ENOUGH reason to even consider NOT gettiong one.

Besides , all rally cars are LHD. :-)


[Edited by Evotion - 10/22/2002 3:34:45 PM]

RichieB

What happened to Fiesta Wonder Woman? Her car sould sh*t all over these Integrale's ....

Dream Weaver

How can personal taste be a myth?

I just dont like sitting on that side, just as I prefer taking right hand bends to left hand bends, with regards powerslides etc.

I like changing gear with my left hand, and having a smoke with my right.

And how annoying is it to have to get out of the car at car parks/drive thrus etc etc.

DazW

iTrader: (1)

Biggest problem with my EVO1 was it always seemed to want to be driven at 10/10 tenths, which would be fine, if it wasnt for the bloody awful build quality- it literally shook itself apart! and once bits had fell off/broken they aint cheap to fix, in the period I owned it I had 2 services which both weighed in at over £800 each, first was just bog standard service plus suspension bushes, second was cambelt service.

Great cars, but they need plenty of TLC, it also helps if you live over the road from Bazza's...eh Huggy

DazW

'94 GT4 ST205 WRC JDM

Paulo P

iTrader: (42)

they are very tempremental though mine is broken again with a dud alternator It is just back from a massive engine re-build too I do not find LHD a problem and actually prefer it. They are very very fast cars and the torque they produce is silly Even the scoobs, cossies and I doubt the mitsi (but dont know) can match the integrales torque I love mine to bits and it is very fast when it runs ok.

This is mine



Paul

[Edited by paulpalmer - 10/22/2002 5:20:31 PM]

Toad

I have to agree with comments regarding the lancia integrale evo's...awesome cars and ultimate legends.Their rallying pedigree says it all really...cannot argue about it.
I have a mitsubishi evo 6 and in many eyes this to will become a motoring legend for it's performances in the world rally championship and the road car abilities.
But I think the king of all road rally legends has to be the Audi Quattro though.It's what started it all really!

Toad.

Toad

What is the power output and torque for the integrale evo?Isn't it 210BHP for the 16v turbo?


Toad.

jackal

always love the integrale and have almost purchsed one in eth past

but apart from eth LHD and reliability the other thing thats puts me off is the power. By todays standards they're not quick enough. When teh EVO2's came out I remember I had a 210bhp chipped lotus Elan SE and it could stay with the evo with ease. 300bhp-ish is a minimum for a performance tin-top IMO.

STill, wouldn't mind owning one... a real tresure to have in your garage.

Toad

I agree performance wise the evo integrale is lacking bigtime.210BHP and 0-60 in 6.2 seconds don't cut the mustard anymore compared to the standard evo's and scoobies.
In fact it is quite scary really that anything less than 300BHP is deemed a little on the tame side!!!
Who'd of thought about 10-15 years ago that you could buy a family saloon car as standard and it would crack 60 in under 5 seconds for around £30K?!?How times have changed.Will be interesting to see how the next 10 years will develope!


Toad.

HuggyB

I don't mean to be rude to the owners of older evolutions of the Integrale, But the build quality of the EVOII is far greater than all the earlier cars(as they were specially built in a different factory). And I refute claims that Integrales (in evo2 form) are any more unreliable than their Japanese clones.

I may as well post a picture of mine to show how things had improved.



The Audi Quattro was indeed the father of the permanent 4 wheel drive rally cars, but these are built to entirely different rules and they were never really successful in the revised group A form which replaced the group B cars. On the other hand, the Subaru's and the Mitsubishis are all built to the same rules as the Integrale so therefore are much closer related.

HuggyB

The people who say the 'grales power output is low should apply their logic to Ford Cosworths as well. I can't rememeber what the cossies had as standard, but needless to say, the same tuning methods exist across all 2litre turbo charged engines.

Rocket

Over the last 10 years I have owned an ur-quattro, 2 Integrale and now a 22b. Spot the theme here, wide bodied road cars based on the rally derivative. In my opinion they are all great cars but you have to remember each one is from a different era. In standard form the later the car the better it is on the road. However these days there is hardly a standard quattro or Integrale left and some of the modified ones are amazing machines.

As for left hand drive in the Lancia. I drove on the left for over 5 years and never found it a problem. It was so much easier to park against the kerb and get out onto the pavement without risking getting run over by traffic.

jackal

tuned integrale = BANG

HuggyB

Tuned WRX/22b Subaru = bigger bang.
Most people would agree, if any car is badly tuned it will explode.

Jackal,
Lets keep this conversation sensible. If you have noticed I haven't made up any derogatory remarks about the different cars. I know of lots of tuned Integrales and none of them have gone bang, you really should stick to the facts.


[Edited by HuggyB - 10/22/2002 6:58:51 PM]

pacenote

tuned anything = bang if it's not done correctly.

Integrale engines are very strong provided normal servicing requirements are carried out. An Evo 1 producing 210 bhp in standard form can very easily be made to produce a reliable 280 bhp.

zoog

huggyB

nice thread - i remember you at Bazzas and Donninngton park I think from a couple of years ago.

I gave up on evocorner too, became too ad-filled and difficult to access.

Sold my lord blue evo2 last Xmas

Wont bother telling you what ive got now, just it aint a scooby.

ATB Adrian