cster

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...d-iceland-bins
Just what on earth were these people thinking of?
"Charged under the 1824 Vagrancy Act" - surely this would have at least raised an alarm bell.
What is it about public service provision that seems to come up with this type of idiocy?

Felix.

They must have had an initial complaint from Iceland though to have got a charge in the first place - i.e the store manager or similar.

They have also acted dishonestly by climbing the wall into a private area to take the stuff from the skip in the first place. Why didn't they attend the store when it was about to close and ask the staff directly for any unwanted food stuffs?. Iceland have binned this for a reason - if it turns out that the food had been spoilt in someway in the warehouse, rat infestation, poison being spilt on it, stored next to food which had gone bad - then who is responsible should any of the suspects become ill or die?

I don't think its correct that people seem to think they have a right to go ferretting around peoples bins and take what they want.

I think it is in the public interest to prosecute and it now sets a president for any bin to be a target for people looking for stuff - whether their intentions are good or bad

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Perhaps if this country hadn't blindly followed the US into litigation for anything, stores MIGHT be more ready to give away out of date food. But no, "just in case" they'd rather it was destroyed or went to landfill. We can't even feed it to animals.

What a sad state of affairs that a supposed first-world country who can afford aid to other countries with better economies than ours, cant feed it's poor, it's mentally ill, it's homeless.
And that some folk are poor enough, and mentally unwell enough to have to try bin-raiding for their daily bread...because society doesn't do enough.

Too much persecution and prosecution. Not enough understanding and help. Shame!

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Yet when so called journalists go rooting around in people's bins to find out information about them no prosecutions are forthcoming... what a fair and balanced country we live in!

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Oops, I'm guilty of that LOL

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

BTW: The government really need to readdress the law in terms of the legal definition and gauging of "public interest"

As the same issue arose when that Landscaping bloke tackled some theives and found himself in the dock for protecting his own property!

Funny that in many cases, like one where a drink driver caused a pile-up, the CPS dropped prosecution citing it was NOT in the public interest

leeds_182

iTrader: (2)

Thefts theft.

Felix.

Could it be that he was getting prosecuted already for something else (death by dangerous driving) so there would be little point in pursuing the drink drive as he will get nothing more for it.

Felix.

I agree, out of date food should be re-used or made readily available for others. mind you, would you complain if you paid for an expensive meal at a restaurant - to find that most of it was pulled from the bins at next doors shop. Or relatives at a hospital using food from bins to help keep the costs of the hospital down.

Not enough understanding - is this the same for burglars then who are just wanting to get by and paying a visit to your house.

I still think that a shop should be able to put things in its bin, in a secure yard, without having someone going through it. I think its wrong that someone should be let off scaling your wall to mooch amongst your stuff whilst your asleep. Not crime of the century, but it should still have been ran

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

A risible argument at best. We are talking helping those who need help, NOT saving dosh, surely?

But they ARE given more understanding. A mentally ill person entering your property should not, and I hope would not, be treated in the same way a s a burglar doing it as his lifestyle of choice.

Disagree. They are chucking stuff out. What SHOULD it matter WHO takes it so long as a) it doesn't get used for nefarious purposes and b) it doesn't end up all over the place.

I recently put a fridge freezer outside my back door, waiting for the weekend and the hatchback to be available to take it to the dump. Travellers took it.
Am I bothered? Nope, saved me a journey and the trouble. Good luck to 'em.

The problem with the UK at the moment is that we are too quick to blame and not quick enough to ask why. Too quick to prosecute and not quick enough to help. A selfish country full of "Thatcher's children".

cster

Malcolm Walker, (the chief executive of Iceland) said his initial reaction to news of the prosecution had been "one of total bemusement". Writing in the Guardian, he said: "Our store had not called the police, let alone asked for those concerned to be prosecuted. Waste food in our bins that cannot be sold is clearly of minimal value to us."

We all tend to colour our view of things through our own experiences. The Police and CPS are clearly no exception to this aspect of the Human condition.
Maybe it would do well for them to be aware of their blinkers, before acting on the general public's behalf.
ps, Cheers for your insightful post. Good to hear things from another perspective

Felix.

The chief executive is never called to see if he wants to make a complaint in thefts like these - this will have come from the store itself. Its all very well the chief executive now wanting to reverse this in light of his brand being given a bad dose in the press, but it must have had a complaint from the store to initiate the investigation in the first place in order to charge.

ie - member of the public can phone us as to what he has seen, but if the store (the next day) says that it was not bothered, then there will be no complaint (or owner to the property) so no chance of any charges being brought - case NFA'd.

The aggravating factor in all of this is that they have scaled a wall in the dead of night and entred into a private area which Iceland obviously do not want the public to enter.

I dont really mind either way to be honest how this ends up - just dont complain when people start to climb you fence into your back garden to see what you have left out, as this judgement may set a stated case in case law.

riiidaa

iTrader: (2)

Wasn't charged with theft

Felix.

So long as there is not a fault with you freezer. When the 'travellers' use it and find that its caused their food to spoil and made their children ill or dead - who's at fault? You were happy for them to have it, but have not made it known that it was faulty - have they a vialble claim against you?

May not be a sensible argument with a freezer - but it will be with food stuffs attributed to a supermarket chain.

I agree that more should be done so that stores can pass on good food to charities, bio fuels etc, but if the store wants to dispose of itmes because there is a risk to health if its eaten, then why can't they be allowed to put it in their bin which is in their secure yard without fearing its going to be eaten by some poor sole? And why cany that store make a complaint & prosecute if people are scaling walls to get to that said bin

Mental health people being treat different - depends what they have. Cannabis induced phsychosis, heroin dependancy, coccain/MKAT come-down aggresion, alcoholic, schizophrenia etc. All still committ crime quite readily and actively, how do you want them treat differently to other criminals with no mental health issues?

Bonehead

Charge them with found on enclosed premises

ScoobyWon't

I'd have used discretion, warned them about theft by finding and told them to sling their hook.

Felix.

i'd have probably done the same, but you don't know what the circumstances of arrest were - or if there were any other factors around the incident.

ScoobyWon't

Very true.

Felix.

This is what they have been charged with - "found in an enclosed yard for an unlawful purpose" (if memory serves with the vagrancy act)

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Felix: my fridge freezer was rendered unable to be used. No worries

cster

Three of the articles I read stated that the store was next to a police station and that they acted/attended under their own initiative.
One of them said that members of the public alerted the police - go figure - maybe it was like the off duty copper involved in the Plebgate case?
Needless to say - there is a political element to this story.

leeds_182

iTrader: (2)

We have laws in this country for a reason.

I can guarantee that Iceland will had given a statement saying they want to make a complaint and are willing to attend court etc etc. A bit of bad press comes out and they change their mind and use the police and cps as fall guys and the liberals lap it up!

slash920

The article states that they were stealing food. I would suggest that that is what they were arrested for.

The cps in my area had to be contacted by the arresting officer as soon as the prisoner was brought infront of the custody officer to establish whether or not there were grounds for detention. Infuriating as this is or used to be the custody officers prime remit !

On top of that, once interviewed, the cps had to be contacted once again to get authority to charge. Ludicrous !

This was a duty cps and was anywhere throughout the country mind.

And the decisions some of them came up with were ridiculous to the extreme !

Don't bash the police too much, it's the system that's wrong.

Felix.

they can't be charged with being found on enclosed premises if they walked into a police station, the wording of the charge gives it away somewhat. Hence, why this charge was more 'fitting' rather than a theft - i.e difficult to prove their intention to deprive etc etc...

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Doesn't matter really WHY they were charged.

They shouldn't have been.

Tidgy

I'm guessing your a policeman/policewoman then?

Felix.

Depends from who's point of view.....

The Iceland store manager has obviously made the complaint about people being in his back yard for an unlawful purpose - despite what the CEO later said in the press.

So, if you have a disgruntled store manager who wishes to purse a complaint - and you have evidence that an offence has occurred and the suspects detained - do you think its right that the CPS state that its not in the public interest to pursue.

for example - someone breaks into your house and steals a loaf of bread from your kitchen bin. You are furious that someone has broken in and make a complaint to police. Do you think its right that CPS can close the case as 'not in the public interest' as they only stole a loaf of bread as they were hungry. Would you not argue that - it doesn't matter what they stole, a crime has occurred and i want the suspect prosecuted.

Tidgy

Only think felix is the items were taken from a rubbish bin so therefore it was unwanted.

I can see both sides of the argument, did they tresspass or break in to get at the bins? Did they have permission to take the items? But did hey just walk over unobstructed to the bins?

WHiel in the letter of the law they have broken it, police are very quick to ignore crimes they wont solve easily that arn;t of a serious nature, but are mroe serious than this kinda of thing, but throwing things in the bin does signify you don't want them.

Felix.

Crimes aren't ignored, they are investigated to the point where there are no further lines of inquiry. At that point, you either have suspects which are dealt with through the court process, or the crimes is filed if no suspects are found and no further lines of enquiry.

And just because the things are thrown in the bin, the store manager does not want people rooting through it by people climbing into his yard - does he not have a right to have this pursued if he so wishes?

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

You have a point, Felix.

But when you state that crimes aren't ignored, a LOT of folk will LOL.

We had a £1500 mountain/trials bike stolen from our garage.

All we got was a crime number, not even a visit.

And many many crimes ARE downgraded to non-crime...it was on TV this morning and the new crime figures' standing shows it.

There is a public feeling that the police as a whole pick and choose what they will and won't pursue and what constitutes a crime.

In this case, the CPS/Police OUGHT to have persuaded the store manager NOT to prosecute. And PLEASE don't tell us that's not their place..........