oliVeR6

I put a deposit down on a rented property (£550) to secure it whilst the current tenants moved out. I haven't signed a single thing with the estate agent letting the property.

My move in date was pushed back due to a dispute with the landlords and ex tenants regards repairs required to the property before I moved in.
Over this period I've been living with my gf and as it's now been 2 months and things have been fine we've decided to stay I shouldn't move out.

I'm just wondering where I stand with my deposit as the estate agents have said that it's non refundable BUT I haven't signed ANYTHING with them.

So legal eagles, what are your opinions?!

BLU

iTrader: (27)

They have your money but you've signed nothing............
Have you a receipt for the deposit?

bigsigh

iTrader: (4)

if you had moved out after two months and the house was in good nick, you would have got the deposit back anyway , so cant see why you wouldn't get it back now?

oliVeR6

Lol yes I should have explained I know the estate agents personally, friends with my parents, I used to work there and I know the girl on lettings pretty well as well. But yes I did get a receipt!

I see what you're saying but had I of moved in I would be contracted to 6 months rent so I doubt they would be too bothered about giving me my deposit back because I'd still owe them 4 months rent anyway.

bigsigh

iTrader: (4)

Yup ano what you mean , in my mind a rental deposit is to cover damage to the property, its not like a car deposit which is a portion of the money owed, therefore if you havent damaged it they should have no reason to withhold the deposit and they havent asked you to sign a contract , to you havent caused them to be 'out' money as such by breaking that agreement.

thats only my opinion of course, it will depend on the landlord/agent i guess.

I have just done the same , a tenant asked to rent my property , but cant take it till 1st oct, so i asked her for the deposit now, simply so i have some sort of assurance she is not a timewaster. however, if she told me on the 1st oct she couldnt take the house, i dont think i would have any grounds for withholding the money as nothing is signed as yet.

Rescue Dude

iTrader: (11)

Lots of good info here.

https://www.gov.uk/tenancy-deposit-protection/overview

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_ad...nancy_deposits

In my opinion the estate agents are being unreasonable as it was them that caused the delay in you moving in and you have to have somewhere to live.

oliVeR6

Yes I was always under the impression the deposit was to cover any damages the tenants try and skip paying when moving out hence it going to the TDS (Tenancy Deposit Scheme).
Personally I think it's just the estate agent trying to pull a fast one to make a bit of money but we'll see.
Having said that I do appreciate that the landlord will now lose a months rent and have to pay to advertise the property again and I feel bad for that. I would never normally look to mess anyone around during a transaction. Unfortunately they've taken too long and me and the missus have gotten too comfortable living together haha

bigsigh

iTrader: (4)

This is not your problem , dont be soft

As you say , it is YOU that has been messed about so far, make this clear and frimly request deposit.

If it was a deposit should it have been placed in a scheme ? if so this should be an avenue to persue. tho is does sound like a ropey setup, so it might not have been done by the book. AFAIK tho there could be penalties for them for not using a scheme as they are supposed to

gpssti4

iTrader: (6)

They should return all your deposit. It's them that have caused you to seek alternative accommodation due to their problem with the ex tenant. The deposit is held against damage or non payment of rent, but, since you've never lived there they should (will have to) return all your deposit. Be firm and remind them of this.

hodgy0_2

letter giving 7 days to respond and return your monies

followed by small claims court

you will have your money pretty quick

mamoon2

A deposit on a tenancy is only payable once you have signed the tenancy agreement.

They cannot hold onto it if you haven't entered into the tenancy

David Lock

Correct Plus interest at 8% over base


Correct


dl

nik52wrx

I assume that if the letting agent is legitimate they will have organised your deposit to be placed into a tenancy deposit scheme?
If not why not, it's there to protect you and if they haven't they are breaking the law.

You say you know them personally, if they treat a mainly friend like this god help those they deal with who they don't know!

Nik

oliVeR6

Cheers for the advice people. I've had an email back from them saying they've asked the landlady (not sure what it's got to do with her) if I can have my deposit back and she says no as it's loss of rent for her!
So I replied reminding them of the fact I haven't signed a single contract yet (just the application for the property when you first apply) and that it's not even been a full month since I should have moved in!!
Should this draw a blank I'll move down the DPS route and enquire as to why my deposit hasn't gone there!

nik52wrx

If I may be blunt it sounds like the agents you are using couldn't organise a **** up in a brewery.

Visit this site for info then report them for incompetence.

http://www.tpos.co.uk/

Nik

IanF

I'd suggest you post your question here:

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/forum.php

There are people who may have knowledge of tenancy law on there who will be able to give an pinion. They offer advise to both tenants and landlords. There seems to be some confusion on here as to whether this is a tenancy deposit, subject to deposit protection laws, and a holding deposit. I suspect it is a holding deposit, which is not subject to tenancy deposit laws, unless you signed or agreed the terms of an assured shorthold tenancy?

Here is a post which may apply to your situation:
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...d-for-security

Good luck

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

The tennancy issue is a red herring............the deposit you paid was a essentially a contract. You promised to rent the property if the letting agent would remove the property from thier list of available rents.

You failed in your promise and as such you breached the terms of the contract and you lose the deposit.

They keep the deposit (nothing to do with any landlady) to offset the cost of re-advertising it etc.

That's how I read it as there was no other agreement in force.

Shaun

David Lock

But the letting agents failed to have the property available on time which means that they effectively made a counter offer which was not acceptable. Deposit should be returned as contract not established.

dl





possibly

Chip

Any tenancy deposit should by law be held with the DPS and not the landlord. Therefore any dispute will be handled by them.

http://www.depositprotection.com/

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

dl

With nothing written down then you would look at why the contract failed.............my guess would be it failed because the OP decided to stay with his girlfriend.

The "deposit" was not for the tennancy as there was none in force.

Shaun

oliVeR6

I was verbally informed that my deposit would go to the DPS. Because I wasn't keen on putting a deposit down for a property I hadnt viewed whilst the disputed work was being carried out.
From my understand only a tenancy deposit goes to a DPS as a holding deposit isn't legally required to be protected. Therefore the £550 must have been a tenancy deposit in there eyes. This would therefore lead me to believe I should be entitled to getting it back.
Just for the record I had previously paid £120 iirc to remove the property off the market and do credit checks etc.

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

That puts a different slant on it completely then.........you have already paid them to remove the property from the market....

Without a tenancy agreement in force they have no right to be holding your monies at all (you have lost the £120)......ask for the £550 back and if not take steps to recover it. Are they part of a trade group who you can complain to?

Shaun

Chip

If your money is with the DPS you should have been given a ref number so you can log in and claim the money back. Both parties do have to agree to this though. if they don't you can then make a claim with the DPS being the arbitrator.

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

There is no legal requirement to place the deposit monies with the DPS until contracts are signed, so they have nothing to do with this at all.

The agents are simply holding money on file, for when you do sign.

As it was the agent/landlord that "pushed back" your moving in, I would demand the entire amount back including any fees for credit checks etc. If they refuse small claims is the way to go, you'll win.

Chip

Fair point, I must pay more attention

oliVeR6

Right, bit of an update for those interested. They are sticking to their guns regards me getting no deposit back.
Below is their email and my response in red. Opinions?

Morning Kendra,

Please find my response to your previous email in red below.

Regards,

Oliver
_______________________________________
From: Kendra Leslie [mailto:Kendra@cumbrian-properties.co.uk]
Sent: 11 September 2013 11:43
To: Oliver
Subject: RE: Deposit

Hiya,

It is stated on the application form that we would take a further deposit to hold the property(not necessarily the tenancy deposit)

Firstly would it be possible to have a copy the application form I submitted please.
When I phoned, with reservations about submitting a deposit before seeing the house again once the work was complete, I was informed I had nothing to worry about as my deposit would go to a tenancy deposit protection scheme so I would be able to get it back if I wasn’t happy with the condition of the house.
This would indicate that the sum of £550 was to be taken as a tenancy deposit and not a holding deposit because there is no legal requirement for a holding deposit to be protected by a scheme.

It was ready from the 19th but on the 13th you informed me you wanted to move on the 1st, which then became the Monday 2nd due to the weekend.

Plus you did apply on 12th July so the property in total has been held off the market for 7 weeks. Plus the last 9 days that we have been advertising, since you withdrew your application which was a potential weeks rent lost aswell.

I did indeed apply on the 12th of July hoping to move in on the 1st August. I was then informed that that was the date the current tenants moved out and the property should be ready for the 10th August. I agreed this date would be fine and waited to hear from yourselves. On the 7th August I phoned to enquire if the 10th August was still a valid moving date and was informed the landlord was having difficulties getting repairs done to the property due to a dispute with the previous tenants. It was agreed that I would receive another phone call from yourselves once the dispute had been sorted.
Come the 13th August I phoned again to see what was going on as I hadn’t heard anything. At this point I was informed that the tenants had finally agreed to pay for the required repairs and the contractors were sorted to go in. I was told the property “would probably be ready by next week sometime” as obviously no specific date could be given due to it depending on the length of time it took to complete the work.
At this point I suggested that we just wait until the start of September so the tenancy agreement began at the beginning of the month as opposed to halfway through.
I appreciate it is a substantial amount of money lost but it has been for the landlord as well.

I am of the understanding that the landlord couldn’t have lost any money from the period of 12th July – 19th August due to A) tenants being in the property and B) works being carried out within the property up until the 19th August.
As no tenancy agreement had been signed I did not default on a contract therefore the only monies the landlord would theoretically be entitled to 2 weeks rent (19th August – 2nd September). Although one could argue that due to delays in the landlord getting the property finished (shall we say from the 10th August – 19th August) I have also lost money due to having to find temporary accommodation during this time.
I say “theoretically” above due to the fact that actually that tenancy deposit of £550 should have been submitted to a tenancy deposit protection scheme within 30 days of receipt (by law). Which means it cannot just be handed to the landlord upon my withdrawal of application.

Regards


Kendra

bigsigh

iTrader: (4)

looks to be getting sticky, however in my unprofessional opinion you are still in the right , possibly a wee solicitors letter to coax things along ?

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

Did you fill in and sign an application form ?

Shaun

mamoon2

If you paid a Holding Deposit you would have signed a "Holding Deposit Form"

If you signed a Tenancy Agreement, this would state the deposit paid.

I'd issue Small Claims Court proceedings. Do it online, it's really easy

oliVeR6

I did fill in and sign an application form but I don't recall seeing anything stating extra money maybe requested as a holding deposit. Plus when I paid the £550 nothing was mentioned about it being a holding deposit. As stated in my reply above, it was made out to me as though it was a tenancy deposit.

I signed neither of these forms. I will give them a chance to reply to my email and then go down that route.