David Lock

So you say that pulling out of Europe will cripple our trade and cost thousands of jobs.

So what is so special about buying from and selling into Europe? Are prices rigged or given some special preference?

If I want to import a dozen Mercedes will I be prevented form doing this or have to pay special taxes? Likewise what might prevent me selling into Europe as before?

Comments, in English please, welcome.

dl

chopperman

At the moment if we import something from another EU country we don't pay import duty or VAT (excluding booze and baccy). If we exit the EU that will change. How this will effect most of us i'm not sure.

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

Surely like Iceland etc. we will have an EFTA in place that will negate the effects of being in the EU?

Shaun

David Lock

Are you sure about the VAT element? If I am VAT registered and export there is no VAT except companies in EC must also be registered so I can record their VAT number on Invoice and zero rate.

No idea about import duties.

dl

chopperman

Not sure at all to be honest. I only found out about the tax when i imported an expensive watch from america. If i imported the watch from usa to uk i would get charged what ever duty it is that's charged which i believe was 20% so assumed that vat. But if i shipped it to my brother in law who was living in Poland there tax was a lot less. Then shipped from Poland to uk i would pay no UK tax as Poland is an EU country. As it was i didn't go that route in the end as i was scared the watch would go missing so lied about the value and only paid £117 uk tax. Had they known the true value i could of been stung nearer £600.
I'm sure its all different for vat registered business than it is for joe public.

Leslie

I doubt it would affect our international trading significantly.

The real question is,is it worth being subjected to Eu ruling such that we could no longer act for ourselves?

Les

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Les, you can't answer...you are CERTAINLY not a Europhile

chopperman

Euro parliament does seem very undemocratic and very "new world order" at times.
America are very keen for us to stay a member of the EU as we seem to be there go between in dealing with European countrys but i'm not sure how or even if we get any real benefit from that. The weird thing was, when BAE were going to merge with some European arms maker a while ago, America threatened to pull a muliti billion $ deal with us if it went ahead as the yanks do not like dealing with europe. Yet they want us to remain a member. I think we deal with the euro's and the yanks deal with us.
I think our EU membership is a lot more complicated than most of us can imagine which is why i'm not convinced a public referendum the right solution in deciding whether we remain a member. Most people i've heard talk about the EU think its just immigration and barmy straight banana laws . I'm neither for nor against membership as i feel im to uninformed to make such an important judgement.

warrenm2

Well its true that will be the default position for a non EU member. However as the 6th largest trading country in the world, it won't even get to that point IMHO. I think the first thing that will be done when leaving the EU will be to put in place a trade agreement that will mean trade will be unaffected. The EU sells so much to us that it is implausible that this wont happen

stedee

iTrader: (4)

i think we should leave because it seems we are more of an enemy when we are a part of it than not. the other eu countries seem to hate us, never vote with us etc.

we want to be friends, we want to trade, we`ll even pay some moolah but we dont believe in living under one blanket law for all. a/ it just wont work, look at the monetary policy what a screw up that was ,tieing in the poor countries with the rich, should of been obvious it was going to go **** up

scarey

Just a one-off scenario for you. EU puts 5% duty on UK built cars going to the EU, so we do the same back. People will still buy their Audi/BMW/Merc/VW/Citroen/Renault etc.... They will still be 5% more expensive though, and the next time Nissan wants to launch a new model anything built in Sunderland will be 5% more if going to the EU.

I think you are probably correct, in the main, however.

ScoobyWon't

How many cars do Nissan and Toyota ship to Europe from Britain?

When I lived out in Tenerife, the majority of cars out there were Citroens/Peugeots or EU subsidised Mercedes taxis. I don't think I ever saw a Nissan out there. The only Toyotas I recall seeing where the Land Cruisers, which I believe are made outside of the UK.

The biggest market for Land Rover's latest model is the US, where Daniel Craig recently launched the model in New York. Jaguar Land Rover as a whole sold 357,773 vehicles in 2012, with 71,940 going to China with the UK, US and Russia it's next biggest markets, followed by Germany. Why worry about the EU when cars can be shipped worldwide?

David Lock

I think that's a a very sensible response and, of course, the key element being that no one really knows what the hell is going on and the consequences, good or bad, of our pulling out.

I doubt very much if there will ever be a sensible debate in the Commons as it will just end in a shouting match. What should happen is that someone should commission an independent report by some eminent authority who can spell out the pros and cons in a concise way which is made available to anyone before a referendum. But I doubt that will ever happen and it will be left to vested interest and ignorant press coverage.

As for the USA it is so much easier for them to deal with their old friends the Brits who more of less speak the same language and have broadly similar goals. The USA has a federal system which works so they probably can't see what all the fuss is about re a federal Europe.

dl

warrenm2

The issue is also where is the EU going? If they are moving off in a different direction maybe now is the time to make the decision.

Have a read of this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...l-Barroso.html Is that something you want to be part of?

chopperman

Jeeez, as i said earlier the euro parliament can be very "new world order". I think i would rather be the US 51st state than part of a Federal Europe.

legb4rsk

What annoys me is the lack of information about Europe , especially with pro-Europe politicians scare mongering nonsense when asked about it.They say we have 50% of our
business with the EU & imply all that will disappear overnight if we leave.

ScoobyWon't

Going back to the car exports from the UK. 50% of all exports from the UK are to outside of the EU. That's still 50% that won't disappear overnight.

The Continent is racked by the eurozone crisis, and it is no longer as easy to argue that Britain outside the EU would suffer economically.

Nigel Lawson wrote last week

warrenm2

Actually there is plenty of information out there, its just not in a collated, easy to digest form. You can if you want the full history. And a website with good resources is http://www.brugesgroup.com/ Neither is scare mongering, rather they are well researched and balanced. They just come to the same conclusion that its a bad idea through reason because that's the way the facts point. The Telegraph newspaper has columns written by http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/bruno-waterfield/ who often writes on the EU.

The situation is at the moment that Spain is basically insolvent, Cyprus has had its peoples personal saving accounts raided, Greece and Italy have had new leaders imposed on them bypassing the rule of democracy, Ireland keeps getting told it voted the wrong way and told to vote again, and all the while the pigs have their snouts in the trough giving themselves pay rises and demanding more money in a time of austerity (remember the budget talks over the last few months?). Oh and the amount of trade with the EU is falling and the rest of the world is increasing

The info is out there, every time you hear a claim, just Google it and you will see both sides of the argument, then you can make up your own mind

chopperman

I'm sure the information is out there. The problem is knowing what information to look for. The average person who would be voting on this issue with a referendum has no real idea of how many issues surround membership or leaving the EU. how it effects our world standing, growth, security, trade ect ect. Damn even our so called leaders contradict each other so what the chance is there of finding un bias info let alone understanding it?

warrenm2

Well obviously personally judgement and experience comes into it, but actually its not a hugely complicated issue as you may think. Break it down into various chunks and look at each one in turn eg trade, democracy, finance, movement of people etc you'll soon get to grips with it

Martin2005

Hi DL - although I'm not exactly a 'europhile' I do think we should be looking to reform the EU, if we can't then that is when we should be talking about leaving, NOT BEFORE

I don't buy into the notion of trade 'being crippled' as has already been pointed out there is far too much shared trading interest with
other EU countries.
That said I don't buy into the idea that this will be good for us economically, it seems to me that the economic risks of leaving all appear to be negative to some degree or other.

I think the broader and long-term interest of the UK are in a modern and democratic EU.

PS I find the stunning hypocricy of a lot of the anti-EU ideologues annoying, they claim that the EU is undemocratic and unrepresentative, yet it those same people who support our own undemocratic and unrepresetnative systems HERE!!

Leslie

So I hardly need to answer it then!

Les

Leslie

Do you really believe that this country could influence or reform the Eu in any way?

You seem to think that the moment we left then our economy would collapse. I think they would still want to trade with us just as much as they do now. I think that you allow your left wing beliefs to overshadow your common sense anyway.

An Eu federation would lead to totalitarian government and I think that even you might object to that! Unless maybe you were doing the controlling of course!

Far better that we keep full control of our own lawmaking and run our own economy in the manner which is best for us.

It is very undemocratic of you to object to those who feel that we would be better off remaining out of the clutches of the Eu Commission. We all have a perfect right to our own feelings about the matter.

Les

Martin2005

[QUOTE] I believe we should try before we walk away. What have we got to lose?

No I said EXACTLY THE OPPSOSITE, are you struggling to read today??

I want a fedaralised EU about as much as you do. But to say this leads to totalitarian government is just nonsense
To a point I agree

I don't see how wanting proper democracy here at home can be construed as 'undemocratic'

All in all some rather oddball an ill-thoughtout comments from you Les

Mouser

[QUOTE=Martin2005;11088029]
Praise indeed from the master himself!

Martin2005

[quote=Mouser;11088061]
Do you have anything of substance to say on the subject. Or is that asking too much?

Mouser

[QUOTE=Martin2005;11088071]Glad to see you got home! You answer me and i'll answer you.

https://www.scoobynet.com/973099-loc...entions-2.html

Post #59

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Les, do you honestly believe we are in control of our own laws now?

We can't even get rid of one Muslim cleric.....

ScoobyWon't

But how much of that is down to fear of the EU Human Rights laws?

ScoobyWon't

How much of a chance do you think that we have a chance of influencing it, let alone reforming it, when there are 20+ countries with their own interests involved?

But what about World Trade? Even if the EU is or isn't cripled, the world trade is a much larger market, is it not?

Please tell us the negatives.

Again, I'd ask how we can achieve this when 20+ countries will have their own ideas on how to achieve this. It is getting harder with each passing month to argue that our membership of the EU is a help, rather than a hindrance to our performance in the world market.

Is the anti-EU feeling simply because the UK doesn't trust the EU, or the start of the UK citizens saying they don't trust politicians, at home or abroad, and they have chosen this subject to voice complaints over, or do the people want to establish their own identity?