f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

David Cameron: We will hold firm on economy

Good on you Dave as it's going so well

I keep hoping I will go the BBC news page and see a red breaking news ticker saying the entire House of Commons have been abducted by aliens, but I guess that's a long shot

Why can they never admit they are wrong?

jonc

Pot, kettle, black!

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Whilst your humour is duly noted and appreciated on a serious note I'm not wrong about this. What I said 3 years ago they should do with the economy is now what everyone else is saying inckuding the IMF. Yet we carry on heading along a path that is clearly preventing any real growth. It does't make sense!

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

If only the IMF were as on-the-ball as you!

jonc

Sorry, I have no idea what you said 3 years ago. Care to remind us what you said the Government should do that will fix the economy?

Orangio

I thought exactly the same

stilover

Maybe we should have voted labour back in, and thus ensuring the kept borrowing and borrowing. They'd be welcoming the immigrants from Romania with open arms, and open benefit books, with keys to a new home.

We'd then go bankrupt just like Greece...........

RA Dunk

I don't think he's on about borrowing but rather cutting taxes and getting people back onto the high streets spending again.

If we weren't so overly taxed on everything I know I would be a little less cautious with my earnings and I imagine there's many more like me who's the same.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Well the fact remains that basically what I said then is what they are saying now! Anyway it's not about brownie points, it's about getting UK PLC working again!

Use the search function, it's written in here a few times

I doubt it!!


Why is this so often the response to these discussions? Yes it probably would be worse under Labour, but there is a middle ground between the Tories 'cut everything, spend nothing, **** the poor' attitude and Labour's 'borrow even more and spend like there is no tomorrow, **** the rich' attitude.

In fact there are a myriad of middle grounds and to me giving the economy some impetus to get going is what is needed. A lot of the issue is not what happens but what is talked about to be/going to be happening. As soon as the government started announcing austerity measures and increased VAT combined with the continued out of control energy and fuel prices and consequential rising food prices the confidence was just sapped completely.

A recent survey by the CBI finds business confidence at an all time low! That is not going to help anything. What is needed is a system of calculated measures to focus on reducing spending via growth and rising tax revenues not solely thriough cuts!

Social housing would be a good start as it is woeful in many areas right now and housing beenefit being paid to private landlords who can more or less name their price is not a good for pulling in government welfare spending.

Cutting VAT would be a good visible impetus too. If you look at petrol sales they are down about 15% on 2 - 3 years ago .... a lot of that is down to it reaching a point where people just won't buy it except for essential journeys. Replenish those sales and even with 2.5% less VAT the goverment would still take more in total revenue.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

As above!

jonc

I have and your're quite a prolific poster and don't have the inclination to sift through all the gumph. But from what I've come across is just loads of rhetoric and no real solution as to how to address the current situation or take into consideration the consequences of such actions. Generally what you advocate is cut taxes and increase spending, how is that going to work? You also said, I quote" And if they really want to save some money stop taking the easy road and address the hard issues like the bloated welfare state, illegal immigrants..", isn't that what they're doing right now.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

If you had the nous to use the search function intelligently you wouldn't need to, but never mind

You are seriusly twisting what I said there, but then your type does that to suit their own agenda. As posted above there needs to be some move towards the middle ground to give some impetus to a what is rapidly becoming a dying economy.... surely reducing the welfare burden and increasing tax revenues in the medium term has to be worth a shot or do you really think what we are doing now is working? I'll give you a hint, the rest of the world doesn't!

Nope, wefare spening has increased under this government! Immigration laws are no different to what they were 3 years ago etc. etc. They are very good at talking and not so good at doing... a bit like the last lot and the lot before..... etc. etc.

Leslie

It looks as though he feels he has to do the opposite to what his party wants and for that matter the rest of us too, so that he can demonstrate to us all his immense powers of leadership!

Les

jonc

Ok lets start with welfare. A part from the cutting Child Tax Credit and Child Benefit for those above a certain threshold, capping housing benefit, Jobseeker’s allowance, Income support, Industrial injuries disablement benefit, increasing state pensionable age, increasing working hours for Working Tax Credit, freezing Pension Credit Savings Credit, the cutting of Employment Support Allowance and Disability Living Allowance and the introduction of the Universal Credit system, where would you like to see savings made in the welfare bill?

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

Scrap JSA.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

In favour of what?

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

All waffle. Here's the bottom line!

2011 welfare spending £113bn
2012 welfare spending £115bn
2013 welfare spending projection £117.5bn

Now call me dumb, but that isn't cutting it's the opposite!

I would like to see a proper state owned social housing scheme and jobseekers made to work on community projects (proper ones not some nancy do gooder's idea of a community project) on the days they aren't 'looking for work'.

I would like to see child benefit capped at 2 children only and only paid for people on extremely low incomes. Sorry, but if you can't afford it don't have kids.

Means test anyone on any benefit including pensions, if you don't need it then you don't get it! Yes I know the argument will be it's not fair, well life's not fair so suck it up!

How about a proper benefit fraud squad with no option draconian penalties for those caught thieving off the state. The ECHR can f**k off as far as this one is concerned!

On a wider scale (and as this thread is about the economy as a whole) I would like to see foreign aid stopped and for us to stop poking our noses into Mali, Libya, Syria etc.

I want to see an end to the public sector being run by people who see wasteage and laziness as the norm. Right the way through from councils to the top line government departments. Employ proper successful business people to make these operations properly productive.

Force banks to lend to small businesses with penalties if they don't. Force councils to offer reduced rates on empty commercial properties to allow new shops and businesses to get off the ground.

Cut VAT back to 17.5% .. I doubt the overal reveneue would be much less and people would feel they are getting something back.

Abolish and I mean properly abolish the stupid amounts of red tape around everything from planning departments to employment law. All these things restrict people from doing things. FFS my local council has a 90 page document on the legalities of walking your dog!!! This sort of **** needs to stop! It costs taxpayers' money and is downright stupid!

I could go on for ever!

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

can't disagree with any of that.

finalzero

RA Dunk

Pretty much mind boggling is it..

Chip

For once, but only this once mind I totally agree with you

jonc

How will you fund proper state social housing and how and who would tender the scheme. Where would the new housing be built and who will fund the infrastructure for the influx of people and families, for example, for building/expanding of schools, policing, healthcare etc. I like the idea of people working for their benefits, but look what happened recently with Cait Reilly.

I don't advocate child poverty, but this will inevitably happen. This will have to means tested to see who would be on extremely low incomes. How are we to fund this. Means tested benefits cost many times more to administer than universal benefits and are often open to administration errors and delays leading to more costs. For 2009-2010, means tested benefits amounted £87bn of total public spending

Again, means testing will need to be funded. Again, open to administration errors and delays leading to more costs.

Again this will need to be funded.

Yep! couldn't agree more!

Yep, I'd like to see this too, but how? Sack existing employees in this bloated sector? There are far reaching consequences in this case. How are you going to entice "proper successful business people" from their own business to work the public sector? Bigger pay, bonuses? surely we need more in the private sector and less in the public sector?

You can't force banks to lend. Isn't irresponsible lending that partly caused the financial crisis? Could it be perhaps the reason why there is less lending is that criteria and new rules for loans are a lot stricter, that business and consumers don't have the capital to repay the loans or that their balance sheets aren't healthy? Sure you can give them the benefit of doubt, but then that's exposing the banks to more risks.

Presumably the cuts in benefits as above will fund the cut in VAT, in effect take money away from one person and give to another. Note that when VAT was reduced to 15% at the end of 2008, it cost the treasury £13bn in lost revenue and we still did not see any growth in GDP.

So basically make it easier for developers to build wherever/whatever they like (within reason of course!) just as long as it's not in my back yard, eg social housing. You also run the risk of creating "social housing ghettos". Make it easier for employers to sack people or set less favourable terms and conditions of work and diminish employee rights? No thanks!

I hear what you are saying and agree with some of the points you made, but things aren't as clear cut as you make them out to be.

fastmike

iTrader: (4)

You must be very naive if you think Cameron will handle it any differantly

Leslie

It is far more important to him to keep his feet under the table with the rest of the world leaders!

Les

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Watchdog contradicts Cameron on impact of austerity on growth

Leslie

I can't argue with any of that!

Les

gpssti4

iTrader: (6)

Once we get rid of the royals, I'd vote for F1_fan to be president with policys like that!

fastmike

iTrader: (4)

I PAID for my pension ........it isnt a benefit it was paid out of National Insurance and tax contributions that I PAID for over 50 years hard toil ........Means test it at your peril son

RA Dunk

Or what? What will you do apart from sit back and take it like we always do?

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

I was told over 10yrs ago that HALF the worlds wealth belongs to about 300 people and the other 10 or more billion of us get the rest.