The Saudis are bulldozing Islam's heritage. Why the silence from the Muslim world?
03 November 2012, 04:12 AM
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The Saudis are bulldozing Islam's heritage. Why the silence from the Muslim world?
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/da...-muslim-world/
From Saturday's Daily Telegraph
Imagine that the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem – the traditional site of the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus – has been taken over by Cromwellian Puritans. The new owners of the shrine plan to send bulldozers in, replacing the old church with a monstrous building resembling a concrete spaceship. This is so pilgrims can pray without being distracted by “superstitious” icons. Also, the Old City will be buried under hotels that make Vegas look like Venice.
It wouldn’t happen, would it? Christians would fight to the death to preserve Jerusalem. So would Jews and Muslims. And, for once, they’d have the support of secular politicians and scholars, horrified by the prospect of an act of cultural vandalism unprecedented in modern times.
Unprecedented until now, that is. The long-cherished ambition of Saudi Arabia’s ruling Wahhabi sect to smash up the ancient buildings of Mecca and Medina is nearing fruition.
In Mecca, the house of one of Mohammed’s wives has been demolished to make space for public lavatories. His birthplace may disappear, too, as part of King Abdullah’s scheme to complement the skyscrapers and shopping malls with a Grand Mosque fashioned from the same materials as a multi-storey car park in Wolverhampton.
As for Islam’s second holiest place, the city of Medina, a recent article by Jerome Taylor in the Independent revealed a megalomaniac plan to pull down three 7th-century mosques. Taylor added: “Ten years ago, a mosque which belonged to the Prophet’s grandson was dynamited. Pictures of the demolition that were secretly taken and smuggled out of the kingdom showed the religious police celebrating.”
Only a small minority of the world’s billion Muslims are Wahhabis, despite the tens of billions of petrodollars spent by the Saudis propagating their creed. (Bosnia, for example, is now littered with Saudi-style mosques, replacing the graceful Ottoman architecture that Wahhabis detest.) Many pilgrims to Mecca are revolted by the marriage of Puritanism and greed they find there. Yet protests are scattered and muted. Why?
One answer is that the House of Saud, though widely hated, is also feared: its wealth and terrorist connections make it unlikely that, say, a Pakistani politician would speak openly about the desecration of the Hajj.
The West can hardly complain about such gutlessness: this year’s Hajj exhibition at the British Museum was creepily sanitised – no mention of bulldozers or the 2,000ft clock tower built right next to the Kaaba, the black cube-shaped building that is the centrepiece of Islamic devotions.
But what sticks in the craw is the hypocrisy of Muslims who throw a fit if Israeli archaeologists carry out non-intrusive work underneath the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem, “Islam’s third holiest place”, as we’re constantly reminded. Such anger would be more convincing if the first and second holy sites weren’t being ploughed up by a police state. Likewise, are cartoons of Mohammed really more offensive than reducing the remains of his life to rubble?
As one Middle East expert put it to me: “Jews disturbing the Dome of the Rock fits into an anti-Western narrative, so Muslims can cope with that. The Saudi destruction of Mecca doesn’t fit into that narrative, and so there’s virtual silence.” Something worth bearing in mind, perhaps, when you wonder why the murder of Muslims by Muslims in Darfur or Syria provokes only limited outrage in the Islamic world.
From Saturday's Daily Telegraph
Imagine that the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem – the traditional site of the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus – has been taken over by Cromwellian Puritans. The new owners of the shrine plan to send bulldozers in, replacing the old church with a monstrous building resembling a concrete spaceship. This is so pilgrims can pray without being distracted by “superstitious” icons. Also, the Old City will be buried under hotels that make Vegas look like Venice.
It wouldn’t happen, would it? Christians would fight to the death to preserve Jerusalem. So would Jews and Muslims. And, for once, they’d have the support of secular politicians and scholars, horrified by the prospect of an act of cultural vandalism unprecedented in modern times.
Unprecedented until now, that is. The long-cherished ambition of Saudi Arabia’s ruling Wahhabi sect to smash up the ancient buildings of Mecca and Medina is nearing fruition.
In Mecca, the house of one of Mohammed’s wives has been demolished to make space for public lavatories. His birthplace may disappear, too, as part of King Abdullah’s scheme to complement the skyscrapers and shopping malls with a Grand Mosque fashioned from the same materials as a multi-storey car park in Wolverhampton.
As for Islam’s second holiest place, the city of Medina, a recent article by Jerome Taylor in the Independent revealed a megalomaniac plan to pull down three 7th-century mosques. Taylor added: “Ten years ago, a mosque which belonged to the Prophet’s grandson was dynamited. Pictures of the demolition that were secretly taken and smuggled out of the kingdom showed the religious police celebrating.”
Only a small minority of the world’s billion Muslims are Wahhabis, despite the tens of billions of petrodollars spent by the Saudis propagating their creed. (Bosnia, for example, is now littered with Saudi-style mosques, replacing the graceful Ottoman architecture that Wahhabis detest.) Many pilgrims to Mecca are revolted by the marriage of Puritanism and greed they find there. Yet protests are scattered and muted. Why?
One answer is that the House of Saud, though widely hated, is also feared: its wealth and terrorist connections make it unlikely that, say, a Pakistani politician would speak openly about the desecration of the Hajj.
The West can hardly complain about such gutlessness: this year’s Hajj exhibition at the British Museum was creepily sanitised – no mention of bulldozers or the 2,000ft clock tower built right next to the Kaaba, the black cube-shaped building that is the centrepiece of Islamic devotions.
But what sticks in the craw is the hypocrisy of Muslims who throw a fit if Israeli archaeologists carry out non-intrusive work underneath the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem, “Islam’s third holiest place”, as we’re constantly reminded. Such anger would be more convincing if the first and second holy sites weren’t being ploughed up by a police state. Likewise, are cartoons of Mohammed really more offensive than reducing the remains of his life to rubble?
As one Middle East expert put it to me: “Jews disturbing the Dome of the Rock fits into an anti-Western narrative, so Muslims can cope with that. The Saudi destruction of Mecca doesn’t fit into that narrative, and so there’s virtual silence.” Something worth bearing in mind, perhaps, when you wonder why the murder of Muslims by Muslims in Darfur or Syria provokes only limited outrage in the Islamic world.
03 November 2012, 07:22 AM
#2
It's indeed amazing the time and energy the muslim world puts into hating the west. One tenth of all that energy is all that would be needed to help the Palestinians on the road to economic prosperity and independence. And yet it doesn't happen.
It's a shame of course, but do I really care about it or some mosque in some backward dictatorship being demolished?
Of course not!
It's a shame of course, but do I really care about it or some mosque in some backward dictatorship being demolished?
Of course not!
03 November 2012, 09:19 AM
#3
It's indeed amazing the time and energy the muslim world puts into hating the west. One tenth of all that energy is all that would be needed to help the Palestinians on the road to economic prosperity and independence. And yet it doesn't happen.
It's a shame of course, but do I really care about it or some mosque in some backward dictatorship being demolished?
Of course not!
It's a shame of course, but do I really care about it or some mosque in some backward dictatorship being demolished?
Of course not!
03 November 2012, 09:38 AM
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It's indeed amazing the time and energy the muslim world puts into hating the west. One tenth of all that energy is all that would be needed to help the Palestinians on the road to economic prosperity and independence. And yet it doesn't happen.
It's a shame of course, but do I really care about it or some mosque in some backward dictatorship being demolished?
Of course not!
It's a shame of course, but do I really care about it or some mosque in some backward dictatorship being demolished?
Of course not!
Aaah it's the confused element again isn't it 
03 November 2012, 09:51 AM
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http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/da...-muslim-world/
From Saturday's Daily Telegraph
Imagine that the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem – the traditional site of the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus – has been taken over by Cromwellian Puritans. The new owners of the shrine plan to send bulldozers in, replacing the old church with a monstrous building resembling a concrete spaceship. This is so pilgrims can pray without being distracted by “superstitious” icons. Also, the Old City will be buried under hotels that make Vegas look like Venice.
It wouldn’t happen, would it? Christians would fight to the death to preserve Jerusalem. So would Jews and Muslims. And, for once, they’d have the support of secular politicians and scholars, horrified by the prospect of an act of cultural vandalism unprecedented in modern times.
Unprecedented until now, that is. The long-cherished ambition of Saudi Arabia’s ruling Wahhabi sect to smash up the ancient buildings of Mecca and Medina is nearing fruition.
In Mecca, the house of one of Mohammed’s wives has been demolished to make space for public lavatories. His birthplace may disappear, too, as part of King Abdullah’s scheme to complement the skyscrapers and shopping malls with a Grand Mosque fashioned from the same materials as a multi-storey car park in Wolverhampton.
As for Islam’s second holiest place, the city of Medina, a recent article by Jerome Taylor in the Independent revealed a megalomaniac plan to pull down three 7th-century mosques. Taylor added: “Ten years ago, a mosque which belonged to the Prophet’s grandson was dynamited. Pictures of the demolition that were secretly taken and smuggled out of the kingdom showed the religious police celebrating.”
Only a small minority of the world’s billion Muslims are Wahhabis, despite the tens of billions of petrodollars spent by the Saudis propagating their creed. (Bosnia, for example, is now littered with Saudi-style mosques, replacing the graceful Ottoman architecture that Wahhabis detest.) Many pilgrims to Mecca are revolted by the marriage of Puritanism and greed they find there. Yet protests are scattered and muted. Why?
One answer is that the House of Saud, though widely hated, is also feared: its wealth and terrorist connections make it unlikely that, say, a Pakistani politician would speak openly about the desecration of the Hajj.
The West can hardly complain about such gutlessness: this year’s Hajj exhibition at the British Museum was creepily sanitised – no mention of bulldozers or the 2,000ft clock tower built right next to the Kaaba, the black cube-shaped building that is the centrepiece of Islamic devotions.
But what sticks in the craw is the hypocrisy of Muslims who throw a fit if Israeli archaeologists carry out non-intrusive work underneath the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem, “Islam’s third holiest place”, as we’re constantly reminded. Such anger would be more convincing if the first and second holy sites weren’t being ploughed up by a police state. Likewise, are cartoons of Mohammed really more offensive than reducing the remains of his life to rubble?
As one Middle East expert put it to me: “Jews disturbing the Dome of the Rock fits into an anti-Western narrative, so Muslims can cope with that. The Saudi destruction of Mecca doesn’t fit into that narrative, and so there’s virtual silence.” Something worth bearing in mind, perhaps, when you wonder why the murder of Muslims by Muslims in Darfur or Syria provokes only limited outrage in the Islamic world.
From Saturday's Daily Telegraph
Imagine that the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem – the traditional site of the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus – has been taken over by Cromwellian Puritans. The new owners of the shrine plan to send bulldozers in, replacing the old church with a monstrous building resembling a concrete spaceship. This is so pilgrims can pray without being distracted by “superstitious” icons. Also, the Old City will be buried under hotels that make Vegas look like Venice.
It wouldn’t happen, would it? Christians would fight to the death to preserve Jerusalem. So would Jews and Muslims. And, for once, they’d have the support of secular politicians and scholars, horrified by the prospect of an act of cultural vandalism unprecedented in modern times.
Unprecedented until now, that is. The long-cherished ambition of Saudi Arabia’s ruling Wahhabi sect to smash up the ancient buildings of Mecca and Medina is nearing fruition.
In Mecca, the house of one of Mohammed’s wives has been demolished to make space for public lavatories. His birthplace may disappear, too, as part of King Abdullah’s scheme to complement the skyscrapers and shopping malls with a Grand Mosque fashioned from the same materials as a multi-storey car park in Wolverhampton.
As for Islam’s second holiest place, the city of Medina, a recent article by Jerome Taylor in the Independent revealed a megalomaniac plan to pull down three 7th-century mosques. Taylor added: “Ten years ago, a mosque which belonged to the Prophet’s grandson was dynamited. Pictures of the demolition that were secretly taken and smuggled out of the kingdom showed the religious police celebrating.”
Only a small minority of the world’s billion Muslims are Wahhabis, despite the tens of billions of petrodollars spent by the Saudis propagating their creed. (Bosnia, for example, is now littered with Saudi-style mosques, replacing the graceful Ottoman architecture that Wahhabis detest.) Many pilgrims to Mecca are revolted by the marriage of Puritanism and greed they find there. Yet protests are scattered and muted. Why?
One answer is that the House of Saud, though widely hated, is also feared: its wealth and terrorist connections make it unlikely that, say, a Pakistani politician would speak openly about the desecration of the Hajj.
The West can hardly complain about such gutlessness: this year’s Hajj exhibition at the British Museum was creepily sanitised – no mention of bulldozers or the 2,000ft clock tower built right next to the Kaaba, the black cube-shaped building that is the centrepiece of Islamic devotions.
But what sticks in the craw is the hypocrisy of Muslims who throw a fit if Israeli archaeologists carry out non-intrusive work underneath the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem, “Islam’s third holiest place”, as we’re constantly reminded. Such anger would be more convincing if the first and second holy sites weren’t being ploughed up by a police state. Likewise, are cartoons of Mohammed really more offensive than reducing the remains of his life to rubble?
As one Middle East expert put it to me: “Jews disturbing the Dome of the Rock fits into an anti-Western narrative, so Muslims can cope with that. The Saudi destruction of Mecca doesn’t fit into that narrative, and so there’s virtual silence.” Something worth bearing in mind, perhaps, when you wonder why the murder of Muslims by Muslims in Darfur or Syria provokes only limited outrage in the Islamic world.
It is a shame and an absolute disgrace that it is happening however bear this in mind. The Saud's are ***** and everyone has their tongue firmly up their ***! There is not much publicity about what they are upto. When the cartoon protests were carried out albeit a while after the cartoons were released a planned effort was made to ensure said protests are carried out. I'm deeply suspicious that the 'marketting' for such protest and outrage had the Saud's at the epicentre. Now if it is the Saud's who are upto no good who is to do the marketing and let the rest of the Muslims world know wtf id going on.
03 November 2012, 10:25 AM
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I imagine " the rest of the Muslims" in the world can do **** all about the buildings in Saudi even if they wanted to , I bet the world heritage people aren't allowed in
Seems a bit sensationalist article to me.
I see its in the daily telegraph ......a left wing comic
Seems a bit sensationalist article to me.
I see its in the daily telegraph ......a left wing comic
03 November 2012, 10:35 AM
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*Smashing-up of random buildings and burning of cars along the route is strictly optional
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03 November 2012, 10:52 AM
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03 November 2012, 11:29 AM
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I'm waiting for them to discover that the bulldozers the Saudis are using are made in the USA - then there'll be worldwide protests against the USA and a few fatalities no doubt....
03 November 2012, 11:44 AM
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The Taleban's blowing up of the Buddhas of Bamiyan sickened me; six months later their pals took out another cultural icon in downtown Manhattan. Although gagging was reflexive, it was wrong. They, and the House of Saud, were and are implementing the word of Allah as interpreted by a 7th century warlord and his companions. Shirk is the sin, if I understand correctly, and I am to respect it.
03 November 2012, 11:49 AM
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03 November 2012, 05:56 PM
#13
So what you're saying is that if one tenth of the energy was used against Israel the Palestinian problem would be over? Right little anarchist aren't you. If you don't care or have nothing of value to add why comment? Or is it just to be a troll again Aaah it's the confused element again isn't it
Aaah it's the confused element again isn't it
04 November 2012, 01:21 AM
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It's a shame what is happening and is about to happen.
The world right now is distracted by the many conflicts (engineered and accidental or opportunistic) but don't be fooled into thinking people (not just Muslims) are not reacting to this, they are however they are not getting the air time they deserve...just yet.
Much like the genocide in Burma of the Rohingya Muslims, it took over 4 months before the BBC News acknowledged something was going on and reported it (lightly).
I have no doubt what is happening in Saudi Arabi is another Wahabi concoction driven and funded by the Saudi elite (who are not Muslims but pagans) backed by elements in the West who stand to profit (or gain ground) from any type of conflict.
Syria is an interesting one because as someone mentioned earlier, it is actually a war between Asad and the west, anyone who looks at the facts will realise that the rebels that are murdering and raping the Syrians are the same mercenaries hired by Israel and Co. to fight in Libya etc (as admitted by Israel when the Libyan conflict was going on...they hired/brought in 30,000 fighters from neighbouring lands, mostly Africans).
Add to this the insurgents and western governments supplying both sides to profit and you have an interesting mix..Asad wasn't joking when he said outside forces were infiltrating and destroying his country (why would his forces murder their own people, they wouldn't but outside mercenaries and insurgents who don't give a crap would), yes he is a tyrant but what/who do you replace him with, civil war?...but this is another topic altogether.
So yes, Muslims, non-Mulsims, Historians and Academics across the UK and US are shocked and alarmed at the prospect of history being literally wiped out but time will tell...The Saudis have been bold enough to desecrate many sites but if they do something as serious as change or damage the Prophets Mosque I am sure many Muslims will be up in arms (but then that's what certain people want after all).
It's all a political move, if it happens it happens, we all turn to dust eventually anyway.
The world right now is distracted by the many conflicts (engineered and accidental or opportunistic) but don't be fooled into thinking people (not just Muslims) are not reacting to this, they are however they are not getting the air time they deserve...just yet.
Much like the genocide in Burma of the Rohingya Muslims, it took over 4 months before the BBC News acknowledged something was going on and reported it (lightly).
I have no doubt what is happening in Saudi Arabi is another Wahabi concoction driven and funded by the Saudi elite (who are not Muslims but pagans) backed by elements in the West who stand to profit (or gain ground) from any type of conflict.
Syria is an interesting one because as someone mentioned earlier, it is actually a war between Asad and the west, anyone who looks at the facts will realise that the rebels that are murdering and raping the Syrians are the same mercenaries hired by Israel and Co. to fight in Libya etc (as admitted by Israel when the Libyan conflict was going on...they hired/brought in 30,000 fighters from neighbouring lands, mostly Africans).
Add to this the insurgents and western governments supplying both sides to profit and you have an interesting mix..Asad wasn't joking when he said outside forces were infiltrating and destroying his country (why would his forces murder their own people, they wouldn't but outside mercenaries and insurgents who don't give a crap would), yes he is a tyrant but what/who do you replace him with, civil war?...but this is another topic altogether.
So yes, Muslims, non-Mulsims, Historians and Academics across the UK and US are shocked and alarmed at the prospect of history being literally wiped out but time will tell...The Saudis have been bold enough to desecrate many sites but if they do something as serious as change or damage the Prophets Mosque I am sure many Muslims will be up in arms (but then that's what certain people want after all).
It's all a political move, if it happens it happens, we all turn to dust eventually anyway.
Last edited by finalzero; 04 November 2012 at 01:24 AM.
04 November 2012, 09:23 AM
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It's a shame what is happening and is about to happen.
The world right now is distracted by the many conflicts (engineered and accidental or opportunistic) but don't be fooled into thinking people (not just Muslims) are not reacting to this, they are however they are not getting the air time they deserve...just yet.
Much like the genocide in Burma of the Rohingya Muslims, it took over 4 months before the BBC News acknowledged something was going on and reported it (lightly).
I have no doubt what is happening in Saudi Arabi is another Wahabi concoction driven and funded by the Saudi elite (who are not Muslims but pagans) backed by elements in the West who stand to profit (or gain ground) from any type of conflict.
Syria is an interesting one because as someone mentioned earlier, it is actually a war between Asad and the west, anyone who looks at the facts will realise that the rebels that are murdering and raping the Syrians are the same mercenaries hired by Israel and Co. to fight in Libya etc (as admitted by Israel when the Libyan conflict was going on...they hired/brought in 30,000 fighters from neighbouring lands, mostly Africans).
Add to this the insurgents and western governments supplying both sides to profit and you have an interesting mix..Asad wasn't joking when he said outside forces were infiltrating and destroying his country (why would his forces murder their own people, they wouldn't but outside mercenaries and insurgents who don't give a crap would), yes he is a tyrant but what/who do you replace him with, civil war?...but this is another topic altogether.
So yes, Muslims, non-Mulsims, Historians and Academics across the UK and US are shocked and alarmed at the prospect of history being literally wiped out but time will tell...The Saudis have been bold enough to desecrate many sites but if they do something as serious as change or damage the Prophets Mosque I am sure many Muslims will be up in arms (but then that's what certain people want after all).
It's all a political move, if it happens it happens, we all turn to dust eventually anyway.
The world right now is distracted by the many conflicts (engineered and accidental or opportunistic) but don't be fooled into thinking people (not just Muslims) are not reacting to this, they are however they are not getting the air time they deserve...just yet.
Much like the genocide in Burma of the Rohingya Muslims, it took over 4 months before the BBC News acknowledged something was going on and reported it (lightly).
I have no doubt what is happening in Saudi Arabi is another Wahabi concoction driven and funded by the Saudi elite (who are not Muslims but pagans) backed by elements in the West who stand to profit (or gain ground) from any type of conflict.
Syria is an interesting one because as someone mentioned earlier, it is actually a war between Asad and the west, anyone who looks at the facts will realise that the rebels that are murdering and raping the Syrians are the same mercenaries hired by Israel and Co. to fight in Libya etc (as admitted by Israel when the Libyan conflict was going on...they hired/brought in 30,000 fighters from neighbouring lands, mostly Africans).
Add to this the insurgents and western governments supplying both sides to profit and you have an interesting mix..Asad wasn't joking when he said outside forces were infiltrating and destroying his country (why would his forces murder their own people, they wouldn't but outside mercenaries and insurgents who don't give a crap would), yes he is a tyrant but what/who do you replace him with, civil war?...but this is another topic altogether.
So yes, Muslims, non-Mulsims, Historians and Academics across the UK and US are shocked and alarmed at the prospect of history being literally wiped out but time will tell...The Saudis have been bold enough to desecrate many sites but if they do something as serious as change or damage the Prophets Mosque I am sure many Muslims will be up in arms (but then that's what certain people want after all).
It's all a political move, if it happens it happens, we all turn to dust eventually anyway.
04 November 2012, 10:33 AM
#18
Interesting that you interpret my post as suggesting that negative energy be expended against Israel rather than positive energy be expended to help the lot of the Palestinians. Says more about you than you realise, but pretty much sums it up though: need rioting, outrage and some flags burned? Count on us! Need conciliation and construction? <silence>
04 November 2012, 11:08 AM
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At this early stage, because the signs of a thread that is going to go south quickly are already evident, I will just remind everyone that:
1) If you cannot debate this matter without resorting to insults, then please walk on by
2) This BBS is not here for certain members to impose their disdain for others/or their views on the wider community.
Ignoring the above will result in a holiday from SN.
1) If you cannot debate this matter without resorting to insults, then please walk on by
2) This BBS is not here for certain members to impose their disdain for others/or their views on the wider community.
Ignoring the above will result in a holiday from SN.
04 November 2012, 01:53 PM
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At this early stage, because the signs of a thread that is going to go south quickly are already evident, I will just remind everyone that:
1) If you cannot debate this matter without resorting to insults, then please walk on by
2) This BBS is not here for certain members to impose their disdain for others/or their views on the wider community.
Ignoring the above will result in a holiday from SN.
1) If you cannot debate this matter without resorting to insults, then please walk on by
2) This BBS is not here for certain members to impose their disdain for others/or their views on the wider community.
Ignoring the above will result in a holiday from SN.
Suresh lets both agree to be civil and refrain from ad-hom after all there are plenty of places on the net to have a slanging match. We should refrain from making SN one of them.
Back on topic - The whole thing is messed up taking apart the religious side historic monuments and places are part of any countries history and culture. It should
never be destroyed even if said population don't swing that way. As for the Muslamic silence I suppose it needs a little more marketing.
04 November 2012, 06:32 PM
#22
No ad homs from me here in any case.
04 November 2012, 08:51 PM
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So then if no ad homs from you then i think we can get along just fine
04 November 2012, 09:28 PM
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Come on you two, please leave it!
It doesn't matter who started it or who said what, draw a line under it and walk away. You clearly find each other (or each other's views on certain topics) objectionable (which is fair enough - not everybody is going to get along) But it takes two to tango and perpetuate a row and that is what this has descended into now. There is nothing to gain by going further down this road! and I really would rather not have to take this further as I know both of you to be perfectly capable of putting your efforts to enjoying the company of the people you do get on with!
Remember: it's an internet forum, engage with the stuff you like, ignore the rest! It's just not worth the hassle to do otherwise.
It doesn't matter who started it or who said what, draw a line under it and walk away. You clearly find each other (or each other's views on certain topics) objectionable (which is fair enough - not everybody is going to get along) But it takes two to tango and perpetuate a row and that is what this has descended into now. There is nothing to gain by going further down this road! and I really would rather not have to take this further as I know both of you to be perfectly capable of putting your efforts to enjoying the company of the people you do get on with!
Remember: it's an internet forum, engage with the stuff you like, ignore the rest! It's just not worth the hassle to do otherwise.
04 November 2012, 10:00 PM
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Mostly from www.whatreallyhappened.com, Michael Rivero runs the site, aggregates news articles from around the world.
This is an example (but most links are dead now as this news is from a while back):
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2011...s-for-gadaffi/
Not the most efficient source I know, you have to filter some of the crap out but it's better than most.
This is an example (but most links are dead now as this news is from a while back):
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2011...s-for-gadaffi/
Not the most efficient source I know, you have to filter some of the crap out but it's better than most.
04 November 2012, 10:16 PM
#27
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Mostly from www.whatreallyhappened.com, Michael Rivero runs the site, aggregates news articles from around the world.
This is an example (but most links are dead now as this news is from a while back):
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2011...s-for-gadaffi/
Not the most efficient source I know, you have to filter some of the crap out but it's better than most.
This is an example (but most links are dead now as this news is from a while back):
http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2011...s-for-gadaffi/
Not the most efficient source I know, you have to filter some of the crap out but it's better than most.
05 November 2012, 02:57 PM
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Question - If we all turned on each other or Scotland started attacking the rest of the UK, who would come in the help us? 
There really comes a point where you have to pull back.
There really comes a point where you have to pull back.
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