Carlh

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...peed-trap.html

Police going too far ?

CREWJ

You can't really argue with them. Technically it can be dangerous but it does seem a bit far but that's a biased opinion since no one wants a fine.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

I thought there were conspicuity rules about the placement of such speed traps, or does that only apply to static cameras? If not, then surely the drivers are doing nothing wrong as they are alerting other drivers to something the police want them to be alert to?

As for the danger argument: Is there any evidence to suggest that having a motorist flash their lights at you is more likely to result in a reaction more conducive with causing an accident that a motorist say, oh I don't know, suddenly spotting a camera and slamming on the brakes?

Also, surely technically by not warning other motorists it could be argued that a) a person was aiding and abetting in a motoring offence or at least not doing their civic duty to prevent an offence?

In respect of the contention that using headlamps to issue a warning of a speed trap up ahead is a misuse of the headlights (which is the offence they're being charged with I believe, rather than obstruction), a savy lawyer could argue that use of the headlamps was legitimate as a warning to other motorists that there was a distraction ahead that may cause other drivers to drive erratically.

Basically it boils down to whether the motivation for such speed traps is deterrent or enforcement, if its the former then the motorists are helping the police not hindering them!! It's probably the latter though, which is why feathers have been ruffled.

jono300

iTrader: (8)

So a sat nav warning off a possible approaching speed trap is legal, local radio / newspaper legally report locations off speed traps for that particular week all supplied by the traffic police for that particular area and yet its illegal to warn a fellow motorist off the exact same thing by the flashing off headlights ??!!

a good lawyer would have that one thrown right out but unfortunatly lawyers cost money which the majority off the public dont have to spend on things like this !!

pretty sad actually !!

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

"It was my mate coming the other way, m'lud...."

Anyone who accepts a fine for this is a mug.

The idea of "safety" cameras is to educate, not entrap. In that case, anyone warning of one is helping in the education, surely?

ilogikal1

The danger arguement is more that drivers who are warned (by other drivers, not by the signs or bright yellow cameras of course) aren't then caught and "spoken to" regarding their "dangerous behaviour", so don't change their habits of speeding where as if you're caught speeding, the invoice issued for the £60 constitutes a "speaking to" and you won't ever speed again. Ever. As proven is by no one ever getting more than 3 points for speeding. Ever. Obviously.

speedking

Unfortunately the Highway Code says:

110
Flashing headlights. Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there. Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message or intimidate other road users.

Although I don't think it's the law.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Quite! Oddly enough though I'm not sure the whole lack of a speaking to being dangerous argument works in the context of the cameras being used with the intention being to PREVENT speeding, which I thought was their purpose?!?

It's only really applicable if the primary intention if to enforce the limit and to punish transgressors who ignore the preventative measures, because then corrective action is not being taken that would have otherwise been taken.

BUT If that is the case then that signals a change in the rationale for the use of speed cameras that has been sneaked in under the radar somewhat wouldn't you say?

As Jono said above: it's fine for sat navs to warn you about camera locations, so in principle it should be ok for other motorists to warn you. The police are trying to get around that by prosecuting under the basis that it's dangerous to use your headlights for this purpose, thus side-stepping the whole prevention vs reinforcement issues.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

IIRC in the highway code

"DO NOT" is a rule, but not the law
"MUST NOT" means it's the law!

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

Interesting new take from the Daily Heil. I remember a chap at work getting pulled for this ten years ago.

They let him off but gave him some clap trap about assisting people breaking the law!

5t.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

All this dangerous argument is bollocks. Flashing other drivers to warn them slows them down and hence they are safer... isn't that what the ***** in government claim to want as a result of speed cameras etc.

I'd have more respect for the police if they just told the truth ... that it lowers the amount of revenue they raise.

Hanley

So when the police are tanking it down the motorway with the blue lights on and flashing headlights at people to move out of the way are they also breaking the law.

TelBoy

^^ Agree F1f.

If i was on a country road and had just eased past a cow in the road or something, i'd happily flash oncoming motorists to try and get them to slow down, for their own safety.

By the logic of this case, even that is "illegal" and therefore i have to allow people to career into a huge slab of beef at high speed. Ridiculous. It's all about money and nothing else.

Saxo Boy

I think the key thing is to deny even seeing the trap if you were stopped. In a European car I'd argue I had recently been driving a lot of jap cars and was simply trying to spray the bugs off my windscreen (and vice versa if in a Jap car). Surely they would have to prove that your intention was to warn other motorists?

David Lock

I lived in South Africa when they were very hot on speeding and you were in big trouble if you flashed to warn about a speed trap. It then became accepted practice to turn on your wipers as a warning. Fortunately it didn't rain much

dl

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

Doesn't this go back to the days of AA patrols saluting passing motorists when police were about............they tried to convict the AA of perverting the course of justice and have been peeved about it ever since.

Shaun

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Exactly. I understood the Highway Code to mean I could let my mate know I was there, m'lud.

andy97

iTrader: (1)

I flash my lights and wave at all my friends, well I think they are my friends

Flash to save cash

DYK

Its just providing information to other drivers,the same as sticking your hazard lights on when a que is ahead on a motorway etc.

Freedom of speech,i'm flashing my headlights as a means of communication

rooferman

iTrader: (6)

I once flashed a mate coming the other way......unfortunately the car directly behind him took it that I had flashed him to turn right ..... In front of me !

Close was not the word....

I previously had thought there was no harm in flashing headlights for one reason or another......nearly learnt the hard way ...

Scooby B

iTrader: (2)

Ah a friend of mine was pulled over for this few years ago, and issued a £30 ticket for "Preventing a police officer to carry out his job correctly."

Davey96wrx

iTrader: (1)

I'll still do it, **** em!

tony de wonderful

It was like that in Oz. The cops would watch for it.

bugblue1

iTrader: (3)

flashing your headlights means you are letting others no you are there.
that ok ya,trying to give you advice which if you were listening when taught ou would no....

Aaron1978

iTrader: (12)

Seriously Look what you quoted and then look what you wrote

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I think we can safely put this one to bed:

It IS about revenue.
It is NOT about safety.
The police are liars, and thieves, not far short of the old highwaymen.

Trust ANY police officer about as far as you could chuck him AND his patrol car, you won't go far wrong

'Nuff said.

RobsyUK

iTrader: (2)

Redonkulous... I will continue to flash ... (flops it out)

bugblue1

iTrader: (3)

you are right liars&arsholes all of um....

Davey96wrx

iTrader: (1)

What would happen in you put your arm out the window and did a slow down gesture??

bugblue1

iTrader: (3)

you are just warning prople behind to slow down,if it were police behind lights on they would proceed with care or probabl just take ya arm off n worry about it later.