Doctors Strike in June .....
30 May 2012, 05:52 PM
#1
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Doctors Strike in June .....
What is wrong with these mega-earners these days??
A GP gets around £150,000 a year .......
It's about time they realised that we are all in it together - good grief, they have had their hours reduced and pay tripled under Labour.
IT'S PAYBACK TIME DOCTORS!!
FFS can't we stop the greed of Bankers, Dentists, Doctors, Vets??
It's getting sickening and any riot will target these people, I feel sure of it.
£68,000 a year Pension at todays money for GP's retiring ....... good enough you greedy gits!!
A GP gets around £150,000 a year .......
It's about time they realised that we are all in it together - good grief, they have had their hours reduced and pay tripled under Labour.
IT'S PAYBACK TIME DOCTORS!!
FFS can't we stop the greed of Bankers, Dentists, Doctors, Vets??
It's getting sickening and any riot will target these people, I feel sure of it.
£68,000 a year Pension at todays money for GP's retiring ....... good enough you greedy gits!!
Last edited by pslewis; 30 May 2012 at 06:05 PM.
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30 May 2012, 07:20 PM
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It's sickening to see. Some bearded guy from the BMA on C4 news just now. Completely sidestepped the questions, what an arrogant man.
Heard a GP on Radio 5 today say she was not even on six figures in an attempt to show how GP's were not all that well paid. I thought what planet are you on where to 'only' be on five figures is a plea for sympathy.
The ****** from BMA neglected to mention that GP pay has gone up something like 50% the last decade.
Heard a GP on Radio 5 today say she was not even on six figures in an attempt to show how GP's were not all that well paid. I thought what planet are you on where to 'only' be on five figures is a plea for sympathy.
The ****** from BMA neglected to mention that GP pay has gone up something like 50% the last decade.
30 May 2012, 08:03 PM
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I am not striking, but just withdrawing from the pension scheme. After inflation I am paid less than I was 10 years ago, but I am sure that isn't uncommon and I am not moaning about it, I am lucky to have a job, especially an interesting one.
30 May 2012, 08:59 PM
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How is that John? Labour increased Doctors' pay significantly.
30 May 2012, 09:14 PM
#13
PSL is on the same if not more than these highly paid doctors and GPs, however, the difference is that doctors are more deserving as they are in the business of saving lives were as PSL on the other hand is the business of taking lives.
30 May 2012, 09:31 PM
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TDW, initially there was a surprisingly generous give away in 2004 with new performance related pay which was related to achievement in 10 clinical areas. The loss of 24 hour responsibility just meant moving money around, but no net difference really.
Over the last four years or so GP pay has been frozen whilst expenses go up and those 10 clinical areas have become about 20 (I've lost count) with more stringent targets every year, but all within the same funding. The result along with inflation is where I stated, I was better off 10 years ago.
However, the public now think that GPs are fat cats which is why many like you would quite reasonably think it sounds ridiculous. 10 years ago they didn't but we were better off and now wrapped in what has now become quite meaningless micro management and spurious performance targets, which have made the day job far more intense and will probably at some point produce another recruitment crisis. Anyone that can get out on the present pension arrangements will do so. We're not replacing them when they leave and working harder to keep income up.
Not asking you to feel sorry for me, I'm doing OK, but it is nothing like the bonanza the Daily Mail would have you believe.
The pension is the main bone of contention though, it is in surplus so very poor value already, never mind after the coming changes. I'd be paying about £20k a year into a pension, to receive £40k a year from the age of 68 after 45 years service. **** that, I'd have to live until 90 to start winning from that one. Given some rather worrying evidence that doctors that retire at 65 don't last very long compared to those that retire at 60, it needs some thought.
Over the last four years or so GP pay has been frozen whilst expenses go up and those 10 clinical areas have become about 20 (I've lost count) with more stringent targets every year, but all within the same funding. The result along with inflation is where I stated, I was better off 10 years ago.
However, the public now think that GPs are fat cats which is why many like you would quite reasonably think it sounds ridiculous. 10 years ago they didn't but we were better off and now wrapped in what has now become quite meaningless micro management and spurious performance targets, which have made the day job far more intense and will probably at some point produce another recruitment crisis. Anyone that can get out on the present pension arrangements will do so. We're not replacing them when they leave and working harder to keep income up.
Not asking you to feel sorry for me, I'm doing OK, but it is nothing like the bonanza the Daily Mail would have you believe.
The pension is the main bone of contention though, it is in surplus so very poor value already, never mind after the coming changes. I'd be paying about £20k a year into a pension, to receive £40k a year from the age of 68 after 45 years service. **** that, I'd have to live until 90 to start winning from that one. Given some rather worrying evidence that doctors that retire at 65 don't last very long compared to those that retire at 60, it needs some thought.
Last edited by john banks; 30 May 2012 at 09:37 PM.
30 May 2012, 10:14 PM
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Whilst we ensure Mutual Assured Destruction of any state which attacks us, we remain safe in our beds.
I ask for no medals, no fat Pension will come my way, I receive a living wage - for all the above - you are getting an absolute bargain!!
30 May 2012, 10:18 PM
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However, the public now think that GPs are fat cats which is why many like you would quite reasonably think it sounds ridiculous. 10 years ago they didn't but we were better off and now wrapped in what has now become quite meaningless micro management and spurious performance targets, which have made the day job far more intense and will probably at some point produce another recruitment crisis. Anyone that can get out on the present pension arrangements will do so. We're not replacing them when they leave and working harder to keep income up.
Not asking you to feel sorry for me, I'm doing OK, but it is nothing like the bonanza the Daily Mail would have you believe.
The pension is the main bone of contention though, it is in surplus so very poor value already, never mind after the coming changes. I'd be paying about £20k a year into a pension, to receive £40k a year from the age of 68 after 45 years service. **** that, I'd have to live until 90 to start winning from that one. Given some rather worrying evidence that doctors that retire at 65 don't last very long compared to those that retire at 60, it needs some thought.
Not asking you to feel sorry for me, I'm doing OK, but it is nothing like the bonanza the Daily Mail would have you believe.
The pension is the main bone of contention though, it is in surplus so very poor value already, never mind after the coming changes. I'd be paying about £20k a year into a pension, to receive £40k a year from the age of 68 after 45 years service. **** that, I'd have to live until 90 to start winning from that one. Given some rather worrying evidence that doctors that retire at 65 don't last very long compared to those that retire at 60, it needs some thought.
I heard GP's on the radio blaming 'media' for the perception that Doctors get paid loads. You never see a poor Doctor though. It has always seemed to me the weakest excuse that the media is to blame for perceptions. If Doctors don't want the public to see them as getting paid too much perhaps they should not call for strikes? Now the laser beam of the public perception is on exactly how much Doctors do make!
I heard this notion of a recruitment crisis before. Thing is the medical profession operates a kind of guild/cartel which is necessary designed to restrict supply. Only so many are allowed to train each year and join the guild/cartel. This could be solved by training more Doctors or letting more from overseas come here.
I'm all for Doctors getting good pay, but it has to track rises and falls in average tax-payer pay or this is unfair. It's hard to say what is 'just' pay for any public sector worker but Doctors should earn more than Teachers I reckon and more than Police.
Last edited by tony de wonderful; 30 May 2012 at 10:19 PM.
30 May 2012, 10:30 PM
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The workforce numbers do get mismanaged, leading to famine or feast depending on whether you are looking to recruit or being recruited. Happens in all medical specialties.
As you may gather, I'm not in support of strikes either, and it isn't very practical, you'd just give yourself a real problem catching up the days after you'd been on strike.
Speaking of training more from overseas, it appears that the university from where we get students may actually have a majority of overseas medical students. Maybe the Brits can't make the grade, or the overseas students pay much more.
As you may gather, I'm not in support of strikes either, and it isn't very practical, you'd just give yourself a real problem catching up the days after you'd been on strike.
Speaking of training more from overseas, it appears that the university from where we get students may actually have a majority of overseas medical students. Maybe the Brits can't make the grade, or the overseas students pay much more.
Last edited by john banks; 30 May 2012 at 10:34 PM.
30 May 2012, 10:37 PM
#18
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I wouldn't believe all the nonsense you read in the papers about how much doctors get paid and the pensions we will be getting.
As JB said though none of us are poor, but we all work pretty hard for what we earn. Believe me you wouldn't want to work the hours I've done over the years.
I would have striked but the day the industrial action is planned for is a day I would be off anyway.
TDW, you seem to have a big problem with well paid doctors, you've mentioned it a number of times on different threads. If you really think somebody who is ultimately responsible for your life and makes decisions on a daily basis that might cure or kill you is not worth £80k+ per year then you are deluded.
To get to this position requires a degree of commitment, dedication and sacrifice that I suspect you have never shown to anything and therefore as a result do not know it's worth.
As JB said though none of us are poor, but we all work pretty hard for what we earn. Believe me you wouldn't want to work the hours I've done over the years.
I would have striked but the day the industrial action is planned for is a day I would be off anyway.
TDW, you seem to have a big problem with well paid doctors, you've mentioned it a number of times on different threads. If you really think somebody who is ultimately responsible for your life and makes decisions on a daily basis that might cure or kill you is not worth £80k+ per year then you are deluded.
To get to this position requires a degree of commitment, dedication and sacrifice that I suspect you have never shown to anything and therefore as a result do not know it's worth.
30 May 2012, 10:47 PM
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TDW, you seem to have a big problem with well paid doctors, you've mentioned it a number of times on different threads. If you really think somebody who is ultimately responsible for your life and makes decisions on a daily basis that might cure or kill you is not worth £80k+ per year then you are deluded.
To get to this position requires a degree of commitment, dedication and sacrifice that I suspect you have never shown to anything and therefore as a result do not know it's worth.
30 May 2012, 10:52 PM
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I wouldn't believe all the nonsense you read in the papers about how much doctors get paid and the pensions we will be getting.
As JB said though none of us are poor, but we all work pretty hard for what we earn. Believe me you wouldn't want to work the hours I've done over the years.
I would have striked but the day the industrial action is planned for is a day I would be off anyway.
TDW, you seem to have a big problem with well paid doctors, you've mentioned it a number of times on different threads. If you really think somebody who is ultimately responsible for your life and makes decisions on a daily basis that might cure or kill you is not worth £80k+ per year then you are deluded.
To get to this position requires a degree of commitment, dedication and sacrifice that I suspect you have never shown to anything and therefore as a result do not know it's worth.
As JB said though none of us are poor, but we all work pretty hard for what we earn. Believe me you wouldn't want to work the hours I've done over the years.
I would have striked but the day the industrial action is planned for is a day I would be off anyway.
TDW, you seem to have a big problem with well paid doctors, you've mentioned it a number of times on different threads. If you really think somebody who is ultimately responsible for your life and makes decisions on a daily basis that might cure or kill you is not worth £80k+ per year then you are deluded.
To get to this position requires a degree of commitment, dedication and sacrifice that I suspect you have never shown to anything and therefore as a result do not know it's worth.
There is no need to make this personal. I worked very hard for the decade I was in the oil industry so don't talk to me about hard work and commitment. If you think working 120 days straight in the Saudi desert doing long shifts and up for days on end when necessary is easy think again. I've also studied at postgrad level thanks.
Anyway this isn't about ***** measuring but many public sector workers have no clue. The private sector is hard, we don't have unions or quasi-guilds to back us up, we can be sacked easily, lots of jobs have immense responsibility and conditions can be dreadful.
It's because of the toll my line of work takes that I am jacking it in. How many GP's quit each year because of the same reasons? Not many. They moan and make out things are terrible but EVERYONE does this in every job I have seen.
30 May 2012, 11:11 PM
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You might be surprised then. One of my partners is planning to leave early because of pension disincentives to continue much longer. Another colleague is leaving this year perhaps earlier than she might if it wasn't for all the performance related stuff. My predecessor left because he was fed up with it. We are only four partners, in about 3 years probably only two. Speaking to others, they are not just moaning but are in a position to quit and I think will be likely to do so. The previous contract was driven partly by a recruitment crisis.
30 May 2012, 11:20 PM
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You might be surprised then. One of my partners is planning to leave early because of pension disincentives to continue much longer. Another colleague is leaving this year perhaps earlier than she might if it wasn't for all the performance related stuff. My predecessor left because he was fed up with it. We are only four partners, in about 3 years probably only two. Speaking to others, they are not just moaning but are in a position to quit and I think will be likely to do so. The previous contract was driven partly by a recruitment crisis.
Anyway people take early retirement in all walks of life. A Doctor of 25, 30 years might not have to work to he/she is 65, it depends on your lifestyle. I guess I meant Doctor who have been doing it for say 5 years, 10 years and decide it is not worth their hassle as a career.
31 May 2012, 06:57 AM
#23
In a nutshell, this problem relates to public sector pensions and not to pay levels.
The government policy is to pay less now (S/A deductions) and get the next generation to pay our generous pension policy.
Any idiot could see that along with long life expectancy and a bloated public sector, this is a car crash waiting to happen.
The governments and unions over the years have been complicit in what is basically a con.
Shame on them and TBF, anyone who supports the status quo.
People need to take personal responsibility for their future financial planning.
How many times have we seen it written on this site - If it seems to good to be true........?
Doctors, teachers, dentists etc. These are supposed to be educated people aren't they?
The government policy is to pay less now (S/A deductions) and get the next generation to pay our generous pension policy.
Any idiot could see that along with long life expectancy and a bloated public sector, this is a car crash waiting to happen.
The governments and unions over the years have been complicit in what is basically a con.
Shame on them and TBF, anyone who supports the status quo.
People need to take personal responsibility for their future financial planning.
How many times have we seen it written on this site - If it seems to good to be true........?
Doctors, teachers, dentists etc. These are supposed to be educated people aren't they?
31 May 2012, 11:52 AM
#27
I'm in the business of saving MILLIONS of lives ...... every second of every day of every month of every year.
Whilst we ensure Mutual Assured Destruction of any state which attacks us, we remain safe in our beds.
I ask for no medals, no fat Pension will come my way, I receive a living wage - for all the above - you are getting an absolute bargain!!
Whilst we ensure Mutual Assured Destruction of any state which attacks us, we remain safe in our beds.
I ask for no medals, no fat Pension will come my way, I receive a living wage - for all the above - you are getting an absolute bargain!!
...saving millions of lives, how so?....you are suffering grandiose delusions, just like Brown when he said he'd "saved the world". 
31 May 2012, 12:01 PM
#28
Sure but I already mentioned that the medical profession operates a kind of cartel which is a latent cause of any recruitment crisis. It's not a natural phenomenon that we train x number of Doctors per year, it is because society chooses to only train x number.
One of my nieces has trained to be a doctor. She was at Uni for FIVE years and is now attached to a hospital somewhere in the SE doing FURTHER training for surgery.
IF she were to start now, that would mean that her TUITION fees alone would be in the region of £45,000 by the time she finished.
Add on another £25000 for digs and £17000 or so for upkeep/living, and she'd be into a debt of nearly £90,000........more than many mortgages.
I think that, in the future, either only those with VERY rich parents, or those who are very committed, will train for that long, at those prices.
Recruitment crisis coming up? Oh I think so..........