JTaylor

What do you make of it? I've spent five years in Wales now and I'm starting to get it.

tony de wonderful

Built on fake history and myth.

Next question.

tony de wonderful

What I don't get is how they claim to be nationalists yet internationalist wanting open border also?

National and international socialists - Talk about wanting your cake and eating it.

JTaylor

Yeah, but have you heard and felt the passion behind Bread of Heaven? There's something deeper than I've sensed elsewhere. Something special.

CREWJ

Wales! Wales! Wales! Wales!

Rubbish chant but so much passion. Most people don't understand unless they are surrounded by it.

tony de wonderful

I'm not sure passion is the best basis for politics.

Watch the whole clip.

http://youtu.be/bs5bnVoZK4Q

GlesgaKiss

My dad's Welsh and I don't get it. He's from North Wales though... more of a scouser than a sheep *******.

wayne9t9

Whats to get? Its being patriotic. Some people are more than others that's all. Wheres Chip anyway. He`ll tell you how tidy it is like innit?

Jimbob

iTrader: (13)

Its crap, same as Scottish Independence.

Maybe thousands of years ago maybe.

Fair enough we run the Principality, separately from the English, but as a part of the UK.

But the Scots go one about English oppression, we had it worse, but guess what that was hundreds of years ago, get over it.
But its populist crap that gullible idiots will follow, identity is one thing, trying to start a nation on hot air is going to end in tears.

Carlh

Im from South Wales, lived in England since 2005.

I consider myself Welsh of course, but Im also British. That means 5 nations under one flag. Together we're stronger, divided we fall....

tony de wonderful

English oppression how? Because an English King annexed Wales in 15 something? Welsh subjects just swapped one overlord for another.

You're right it is populist crap sure.

Leslie

I really can't see anything wrong in supporting your own or your adopted country.

Les

Chip

I'm here boyo

Welsh people are the purest Celts, an ancient people with a proud heritage.

Chip

tony de wonderful

'Purest'? Is that decided by Plain Cymru scientists?

It must feel pretty good to be so racially pure?

What is a Celt anyway and how do you know they were 'a people'?

Chip

Gene scientists at the University College of London (UCL) have claimed that the Welsh are the "true" Britons and are remnants of the Celts that were pushed out by Anglo-Saxon invaders after the Roman withdrawal in the fifth century.

zip106

Ah, you'll be wanting the PM to apologise then?

Y'a know... like the other one did for slavery...

EddScott

Funnily enough there was an episode of the kids program Horrible Histories which covered the above. I remember the scene because we know one of the actresses.

Had these chaps tied to a tree in Fishguard being poked by Romans with big sticks

I've lived in West Wales since 1997 and its very much "little england". You don't hear much Welsh spoken here but go east to Carmarthen or north to Fishguard and you'll notice it far more.

Only issues I've had is keeping my mouth shut when England score.

Chip

Well that's not very often then

Chip

Edd,

Of course any Englishman with enough sense and money would want to move away from England to somewhere nicer.

EddScott

There are a few that I know who had very highly paid jobs with houses that were several hundreds of thousands of pounds say 10 or 15 years ago. They moved here and either took less money or have jobs that suit "lifestyles" and with the sale of their house bought sizeable houses round these parts. Its not so good now but at one time housing was silly cheap compared to the rest of the UK. My mother has a friend that is selling executive homes just outside Witney in Oxfordshire and the homes are like £800K. £800K would buy you most of Milford Haven even now.

For instance 10 years ago you couldn't give houses away in Narbeth. Now its the "posh" place to live.

The trouble you have is trying to get back. I know people who sold up, bought big houses, retired or slowed down, don't like it, want to move back but can't becuase the same size house they are used to here for £250K is £500K up the line somewhere.

The other big issue in West Wales is the lack of executive type jobs. The middle management 50K to 200K type jobs that everyone seems to have in Oxfordshire?? Much harder to earn a living giving financial advice in an area where there isn't alot of excess wealth to go around. You've got the farmers and they do indeed have deep pockets, unfortunately their arms are very short

tony de wonderful

What does 'true' mean in this context?

Even if it is the case the the population of wales can in general trace their distant ancestor back to before the Anglo-Saxon invasion, you would have to admit this has naff all in itself do do with a line on a map and there could be people on the English side with more 'Celtic genes' than a Joe Bloggs on the Welsh side? I've got a welsh mate who is Indian BTW. I think his celtic linage is pretty slim.

Also you have not clarified by what you mean as 'the Celts' BTW. Did they consider themselves 'Celts'? Or is it just something we made up in the 19th century?

tony de wonderful

I spent a few months around Pembrokeshire back in the late 90's doing a uni project. Spent time in Milford Haven, St Davids, Haverfordwest also the middle of nowhere near the coast. How can the local people afford 500 k houses? It seemed a place with not much well paid work?

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

It's still like that now, i spend as much time as i can around St Davids,,lot of holiday homes ect, but naff all in the way of well paid work, house prices are quite high though, i'd have bought there years ago if there was something to do other than walk and fish.

Turbohot

I think the same, Leslie. Welsh nationalism is good.

I have heard quite a bit that the English become suddenly patriotic when they see a bunch of Welsh people night-outing in Chester, though. General opinion among the Welsh here is that apparently after a few beers, Chesterites try to drive the Welsh out with all their might and main, for no known reason. Just as well Wrexham saw some developments, or Welsh people would have had to either get bruised and cut it short in Chester, or just not go out dancing and drinking there. I am talking about men. I don't think Welsh ladies got troubled in that way; in past, or even now.

Saying that, all including English get patriotic over the religion known as Football, don't they? Those sub-religious scarfs, hats, banners, little plastic flags and God knows what not. All good as long as no one starts fighting, which does happen occasionally.

scud8

iTrader: (1)

The Welsh sense of nation is pretty strong, but it's also pretty tribal. I'm from the north, so a "gog" to anyone from the south. And the worst football fight I've ever been involved in was at a world cup qualifying match between Wales and Czechoslovakia at Wrexham in 1977 - between north Wales and south Wales supporters (the Czech's didn't have much of a travelling support).

EddScott

If only we'd known. Our house is a 3 bed semi in a quiet reasonable area and it was £48K in 2001. We had the 5% paid for and all legals paid. All we had to do was pay £99 deposit and find the 95% mortgage. Should have got 2 or 3!

There is money here but its not like it is up the line. The refineries were big employers but not so much now. The place is on a bit of decline at the moment.

Shame really because I really like it here and wouldn't go back to Oxfordshire.

CREWJ

Unfortunately I had to move to the midlands for work. I'd prefer my job to be in South Wales but alas the business is here.

ScoobyWon't

Well I'm 25% Welsh, 25% English and 50% Ukranian if I trace my line back to my grandparents.

Which heritage should I choose?

Jimbob

iTrader: (13)

Chip is right, the Romans came into the UK to stop the Druidic religion and healers (not the new-age hippies, or 18th century Welsh idiots). And they forced them up from the UK into Anglesey when Budica/Bodecea attacked London and the Romans swept back down after killing the lot to wipe out the upstart bird from the Iceni Tribe.

But Celt is aterm that they shouldn`t use, we were ancient Britons, speaking Brythonic, which Welsh and Gaelic are descended, unlike English being from German hehehe.

That was stage 1.

Stage 2 was the systematic destruction of the Welsh Language and Welsh Identity. Language not allowed to be spoken, national dress gotten rid of to the point they created some crap in the 1780`s to make us Appear Welsh.
There are more castles in Wales, and per square mile, than any country on Earth. So was that about defending the Welsh or oppressing them?? Seeing as they are a Northern French Design I`ll let you do the calculation lol.

But that is the past, its our history. It should not be forgotten or air-brushed out of history, but we should not base current politics upon it either. We in the UK have a distinct culture which is different to the continent, but mutually dependant. We are a collection of peoples who have so much history of war, love to pick holes in each other, but when the cookie crumbles are one nation. Any person who suggests we should split up is a pie in the sky dreamer, and 900-1000 years out of date.

But as I said we should know as much about our own histories as we can, as not everything was Anglo-Saxon, or Norman, or even Roman in origin. We were a diverse and rich culture long before that, and history has tried to eradicate this.

Jimbob

iTrader: (13)

As for language.

Window. Simple word, but which language matches, so being a European Language so sharing ancestry??

Window - English
Ffenestr - Welsh.
Fenster - German.
Fenêtre - French.
Finestra - Catalan.
Venster - Dutch.
Finestra - Italian.

So they claim Welsh to be a non entity, yet its clearly linked to the other European languages, and even used as the base for Elfish in Lord of the Rings lol. Its not claiming we are/were things we weren`t but claiming back our rightful place. And that is as part of the British Isles, so BRITISH not continental European.