alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Just had a call from the consultant at the local hospital to tell me that my sciatica-type symptoms), (not TRUE sciatica, since they manifest down the FRONT of my right leg, not the back), that I have had for nearly nine months now, are, as I thought, due to disc damage pressing on the femoral nerve. Which is EXACTLY what I told my GP when I first got it.

He is referring me to a surgeon in Hull for probable surgical intervention.

First I have to go and discuss all the drawbacks. Which are numerous. And VERY scary.

Oh well, if he makes a mistake this time, at least I'll only become PARAplegic and not the QUADRIplegic I was threatened with last time.

Anyone else had spinal surgery to correct a damaged disc pressing on a nerve?
What were your findings?

The internet sites I've read so far seem to say that I've a 75% likelihood of either INCREASED pain, or the pain returning in under five years.

I've stopped reading them now.......

Boro

iTrader: (1)

Is this a last resort? I suffer from sciatica due to a degenerated disc but I'm trying everything possible before going down the surgery route! Scary is not the word!!!

SiPie

Alcazar

Sorry to hear of this

I too suffer and unlike most it doesn't travel down my leg at all, just astonishing pain in lower back

Been having really good results with a good physio and doing all the exercises he gives me religiously.

Until you have exhausted all avenues, DO NOT opt for surgery as you don't need to hear another story about spinal surgery going very wrong, my dad in this case.

Avoid

zip106

You have a spine?


But seriously....
I have a very good mate who had major disc surgery 2 years ago.

His problem was a degenerative disc that was crumbling and allowing the nerve to become trapped - coughing, sneezing etc were very very painful.
He went through various things before he resorted to surgery - one was a discogram
- http://www.spine-health.com/treatmen...gram-procedure -
this worked well for a short time, although not a particularly nice experience.

However, in December 2009 he had a full disc replacement, was told of the possible side effects (like you) and shat himself.

He had the surgery done (they went in through his stomach as it was lower back) and he's now a new man.
Cycling, dancing acting the **** frequently...and no pain whatsoever.

I guess from surgery to feeling good was about 3 months.

Hope you get it sorted - not much worse than persistent back pain.

edit - there was a thread on PH about this - http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...%3F&mid=133065

dpb

Sorry to hear your problems man

Maz

iTrader: (34)

I had a consultation with the neurosurgeon about three weeks ago. He went out of his way to dissuade me from surgery saying that my disk damage (four disks) was too great, and that surgery would mean an absolutely huge operation. He also said it might not be a long term solution and the pain could return. I was coaxed in to going for a non invasive procedure (which I'm still waiting for!). Am I being persuaded out of surgery for cost reasons or should surgery really be the last resort.

Chip

Jeff,

I know 2 people who had this done in the past 12 months and both are now like spring chickens about the place. They too, were both really worried about what could go wrong which is only natural and you do need to bear in mind that the surgeon does have to tell you he worst case scenario if there is a problem which is also the case with any other operation.

Chip

fitzscoob

Hi,

My sister had this. She had to have a discectomy which was intended to stop the bone putting pressure against the nerves.

Its a frightenly scary prospect, and she suffered with it quite badly. She has had a few years (maybe 6) which have been relatively pain free, however the pain has returned and she's having to visit consultants again to figure out the next best options.

I honestly dont know enough about what she had done, however if you'd like me to put you into contact with her, please feel free to pm me your email address and I'll pass it on to my sister.

All the best

Fitz

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

The thing is, I've had one done already: in the lower neck, (vertebrae 7/8), where they went in through the throat, pulling and pushing both oesophagus, voice box and bronchus out of the way to do so.

The risk THAT time was a surgical mistake would have caused quadriplegia: paralysed from the neck down.
Now THAT scared me. Not dying, not being seriously ill, but never being able to do ANYTHING but breathe again, without help. How ANYONE lives with that is beyond me.

Anyway, I had it done, since the alternative was possibly the same thing happening without warning, and came through it OK, just left with constant pain from nerve damage cuased by the original complaint. The nerve is all but dead, but still gives pain...go figure! Movement is ok , but restricted, strength is lower, feeling is nowhere, and circulation is poor due to not being able to feel hot/cold

This time, any paralysis would be legs etc. Not good, but survivable, in a way. Plenty of folk do so.

No, it's not that, it's the possible illness this time, since invasive surgery on the spinal cord AGAIN carries the possibility of the dreaded total paralysis.....

I've already been advised against having any sort of manipulation, physio, osteo, etc, since if the disc gets pushed any FURTHER out instead of back inwards, I could end up losing not only the USE of the leg, but the leg itself: if the nerve completely dies, so will the leg, eventually.

In the end, I think that, after 9 months of constant, every second of every minute of every hour of every day....you get the idea, type pain, If surgery is offered, I'll go for it.

Thanks for replies.

OH, and zip: yes I HAVE a spine, and I can prove it, because someone else has SEEN it. How many on here can say THAT???

john banks

The wikipedia page on this topic is quite good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinal_disc_herniation

The points about outcomes being similar at 1-2 years (with more misery before then) and lack of positive evidence from randomised controlled trials for many surgical techniques are important.

Do you smoke? Are you overweight? Have you already had physio, tried anti-inflammatories, considered amitriptyline, gabapentin etc?

Surgery will only be offered if the surgeon is convinced that they will likely do more good than harm on average in many situations similar to your own. They should explain and justify their decision to you, they have to tell you the downsides, but should be able to give you estimated percentages in your situation of good and bad outcomes, the effect of doing nothing etc. If they are willing to operate the decision is still obviously yours, and they may give you the options and encourage you to choose if it is not clear cut. Or they may steer you clearly in one direction or the other.

Edit: saw your comment about physio. I wouldn't say advice from a physio is a bad thing, but you don't want it manipulated by a chiropractor.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

John, yes, I'm on Gabapentin, 300mg. It DULLs the pain, but does not completely remove it, and even at my best, an injudicious move can cause me to go rigid with shock.

I also have MST 15mg for pain in the other arm, which also does much the same with this.

Paracetamol are an addition which sometimes help.

I have had ten weeks physio. No effect.
Amytrip have no effect.
Anti-inflammatories? Like ibuprofen? Banned now for me after a possible TIA....

Of course, the knowall labour Party removed the pills that DID help me, especially with the arm pain from the previous time: Co-Proxamol, now unobtainable...at least via MY medical practise.

john banks

Max dose gabapentin is 3600mg/day. Many people aren't on a high enough dose and if you have had some benefit then discussion about gradually increasing it (limited by drowsiness or side effects) could be useful.

Also did you get to 50mg of amitriptyline? Because I start it at 10mg and write one or two at night on the initial prescription, people often abandon it before getting to a good dose.

I can't think of anything else for now.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Sounds to me like you should take the chance fella. Good luck.

TX.

ScoobyDriverWannabe

Sounds like you have exactly the same problems as my old man.

They told him originally if he didn't have the surgery he would end up in a wheel chair within a year or so anyway.

After mri scans going missing, cancelled appointments etc it was about 3-4 years later when he had the same operation going in through the throat as you mentioned.

They then planned to start on his lower back with a series of operations. After the first one they decided it was too late and were wasting his time so wouldn't bother carrying out the other stuff they had planned.

The specialist discharged him and now he just has to suffer with it gradually getting worse. They prescribed him morphine patches as a last resort to try and manage the pain, he had to come off them cold turkey after a couple of month when he pointed out he had heart problems and shouldn't of been on them in the first place.

If there is a chance they can do something to help I would take the chance. Its pitiful seeing my old man degenerate the way he is. He was the fittest person I knew and now he cant stand up to make a cup of tea. Cant eat a meal without dropping his knife and fork due to loosing feeling in his hands.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Got up to the 50mg Amytrip, yes, no effect.

The gabapentin is reckoned ONLY to be for nerve pain in smaller doses.
The higher doses are to control epilepsy, aren't they?
I got that from the inside blurb.

Forgot to say:
Slightly overweight, not obese.
NEVER smoked.
Like a drink or three. Most nights.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I tend to drop things now after the loss of feeling in my left hand and an undiagnosed broken thumb in my right has left me with no grip.

And have a guess what the HARDEST thing is to do in a day? Yep, bend to pick up etc.

john banks

Gabapentin is licensed for neuropathic pain at a dose of up to 3600mg per day (according to the British National Formulary, but some individual summary of product characteristics may still say 1800mg). The pain clinic are often pushing people up to this dose these days. Worth consideration since you've had a partial response. Don't increase it on my advice, it is just a possibility.

SiPie

Alcazar

You've certainly been through the mill fella and I didn't realise the pain is constant with you

Whatever you decide, my best wishes are with you as I thought I knew pain until this nerve pain, can only imagine how you must feel.

Bean1984

iTrader: (3)

I know its a long shot dude but why dont you talk to the Royal national Spinal hospital in buckinghamshire mate. I know its a trek down from hull but ive had to blue light a few patients there to have spinal treatment and they come out all smiles?

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

As you know mate, I'm only ever up the road if you need me.. Whether it be a lift, helping hand or just a chit chat. You know that

Turbohot

What he said.^

All the best, Alcazar.

ukjesters

iTrader: (3)

I had an op 18mths ago and other than leaving me with a numbish feeling on me right *** cheek all went well.
I had a discectomy for a prolapsed disc & they also did something to 3 of my vertebrae (cut a channel in or something like that) so they could open up the spinal cord covering + remove the tumours that were growing in there. Yes all the possible downsides were explained but really what choice do you have, luckily my tumours were benign but they were way too big to be in my spinal cord anyways and these were also pushing on nerves giving me spasms throughout the day which make you arch ya back like you're being bloody electrocuted! So yeah, I've gotta say go for the op because let's face it, it ain't gonna fix itself.
Good luck + hope ya get sorted soon.
Regards
Rick

Lee247

You have my sympathies. I have seen the other half, sometimes walking like a crab as the pain can be so bad in his back. He had cortizone (sp) injections, about 6 I think and touch wood, they seem to have done the trick.
All the best

urban

iTrader: (1)

Steer clear of the internet for research.
I've been through this same situation myself several times with my Wife.
Infact she had to have spinal surgery again yesterday, although less risk this time.
Thankfully it went well, and the surgeon seemed very pleased.

Good luck.

Fat Boy

Good luck with this, and good to get John Banks' qualified medical views on this - as he says, the surgeons, despite rumours to the contrary, wouldn't normally recommend anything unless they believe on balance that it's a better option for you.

It's only my personal view, but if things became as debilitating as you're describing then after listening to educated advice, I would be leaning towards surgery. That should never be done lightly, obviously, but to be honest even if the pain / other symptoms might come back later in life then you should have had X good years in the interim.

I managed to break my back in a fall in 2007 (Burst wedge fracture of T12 with some invasion of the spinal canal but very fortunately no serious long lasting issues so far, so i know what it's like to live in a back brace for a couple of months...) and I have mild sciatica from L4/5 - which pilates has eased to an acceptable level, but I have also had some 16 ops on one knee, including two full knee reconstructions, as well as multiple other minor bits and bobs like kidney stones etc- so I know what it means to go through surgery. It's really not to be taken lightly, and it is painful and difficult for a few months afterwards, but that has to be balanced against risks and potential upside. I won't hesitate to do it again when it becomes necessary as long as I feel that I've understood the risk/ reward ratio properly. Only a (short) matter of time before I get to the artificial knees stage - I sometimes feel I've had so many "mods" done that I should enter myself onto Barryboys...

The last of my big knee ops was at the Royal National Orthopedic Hospital in Stanmore ( where a lot of the gurus work) and there were quite a few people on my ward who had something similar to you who had gone through the ops - discectomy, vertebral fusion,etc, who I got friendly with over time - I would chat to them to cheer them up and to pass my time as I could at least drag myself around the place. I met a few of them some months on and some of the guys who I had seen inch themselves in to the place pre op, stiff backed and virtually immobile, walked in normally and were glad to have gone through it. Every person has a different story and outcome, but there are people for whom it has been worth it and living with it as it is would make me willing to try most things.

Anyway a long ramble, but the best of luck with whatever route you take and I hope it improves.

FB

Evolution Stu

iTrader: (2)

Wow, sorry to read this mate.

Leslie

I am am really sorry to hear about all those problems. I think that they deliberately tell you the worst possible results so that they are covered of course and that the risks are not so bad as they might seem. I got the same when I was operated on and it is a worry of course.

I hope it all goes well and you get back to as near normal as possible.

Les

SJ_Skyline

Good luck Alcazar

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Thanks to all who have responded, for the good wishes and positive comments.

I already feel better about this.

I am seeing the consulatant who will be referring me to the surgeon, today, and will ask him about possibly increasing gabapentin doseage too.

I have definitely decided to avoid internet research on this, since the REALLY scary stuff seemed to come from...yes, you guessed it, sites offering alternative treatments!

Anyway, thanks agian for the level of support, it IS much appreciated and I will post up anything today's visit throws up.
Jeff.

urban

iTrader: (1)

Yes, avoid internet research
My other half's big issue is that there is something nasty present between C4 through C6.
However, the risks of getting anything done about are just too great.
So, it stays there like a ticking ******* time bomb in the back of our minds
This thing leaked 8 years ago, and put her in hospital for 8 months
A lot of that time meant she was paralysed down the entire left side of the body