David Lock

Anyone see this last night? I just found it depressing to be honest. Just a reminder, if we need one, of how the dregs of society live. In absolute filth and squalor. And the way most of them treated their dogs was mostly appalling.

I turned it off with a nasty frame of mind thinking save the dogs and put the bloody owners down

david

g7prs

iTrader: (5)

What channel was it on?

David Lock

Beeb 1

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...eath_Row_Dogs/

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

It's just a shame the owners can't be put down instead of the dogs, that would reduce the defecit. Most councils don't allow pets in flats so I can't see how that fat trollop in the high rise was allowed to keep that poor dog.

R1CH D

iTrader: (8)

Utter pile of ****e as usual from the beeb. In the right hands you couldn't ask for better dog.

David Lock

I think that's a bit unfair tbh. The beeb were just reporting the reality of what goes on.

And I've no wish to invite another "no such thing as a bad dog - just bad owners" discussion but to me it seems that some dogs are naturally more aggressive than others. And I don't actually see the point of owning one as there are plenty of calmer one to choose from. dl

Dirk Diggler 75

Same here....
The type of people on that programme absolutely disgust me........ ...

g7prs

iTrader: (5)

Just watched it and its grim viewing! The law is sh@te though that a perfectly good well behaved dog should be destroyed

Was that a subaru front bumper in one of the gardens

Mus

iTrader: (2)

disturbing programe specially at the end when the killed that dog shame it couldn't be re homed, the law the system clearly doesn't work. by them killing an innocent dog do they think that's going to stop dog fighting or back yard breeders. the law needs to come harder on these people.

i also feel sorry for the family the lost the kid, even in the wrong hands these dogs ain't that bad in some cases. for a dog to be aggressive enough to hurt a kid something must of been wrong from the start with the way the dog was brought up. you can't give your dog 100% love and expect it to be affectionate it don't work like that. it's all about maintaining a balance dogs are dogs and aren't human the sooner they understand that better you will bring up your dog.

I've owned mine for nearly two years, some parts of it have been challenging specially the early parts. but after lots of reading, pitbull forum 100 episodes of the dog whisperer all helped she's brilliant.

Leslie

That is completely accurate and unbiased comment with which I agree fully.

I think many people have such a type of agressive dog in an effort to appear more manly!

Les

ozbod1

some dogs are not naturally more aggressive than others but i see where you are coming from, theres a few reasons for the incorrect information thats out there...starting with the obvious if a powerfull breed attacks either a human or another dog the result can be much worse, where as if a yorkie goes at your ankles you would forget within the hour...biggest problem is powerfull breeds are like a frikin magnet for numbnut owners, staffs pitts and a few other breeds do have a history of fighting and its still there in most cases but this doesnt apply to humans-quite the opposite....
as the owner of a powerfull breed you can keep a lid on there historical nature...i get up at 4am every single day and take my dog for a walk/run/play hes calm all day then i do the same at night...i look after him correctly, hes 4 years old and has never shown aggression towards anything or anyone...i also owned a staffordshire bull terrier for 15 years prior to my current dog, i brought him up with my daughter{now 19} ive never seen such a bond and a completely loyal and reliable family dog...i also owned a pitt before this and pre ban and hes was the same....he died young with illness. due to seeing these breeds suffering im now a staffy rescue helper...let me tell you its heart breaking to see and hear some of the stories of these dogs...im a 40 odd year old rough **** bloke but i still get upset....after 20 odd years of owning these dogs i can promise you the owner really is to blame....no defence for a dog that attacks a human but trust me its very very rare but if you new what has really happened to some of these dogs its easy to see why it went wrong....staffs in particular are a victim of there own sucess, i know plenty of facts and figures one being there population has increased ten fold so just that alone will increase the chance of "incident" and even at that human dog bites in the uk staffs are about 8th on the list...at the top of that list yearly is a spaniel but spaniel attacks dont sell papers....each to there own regarding dog breeds but once you have a staffy its for life.....in fairness the beeb have been fair of late they are just showing the reality of a ****e life a ****e owner gives to a quality dog breed...

R1CH D

iTrader: (8)

They are not inherently aggressive dogs if they are bred properly. Problem being these muppets are breeding dogs which are people aggressive and overly dog aggressive. They have superb manners and nature if bred and brought up correctly.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Dog agression is mainly down to how the animal is treated and socialised. And this has to be done from a very early age. If the dog isn't socialised it naturally becomes aggressive to any alien situation....be it people or other dogs.

Its easy to get it wrong with any dog, its not all about cruel treatment either, being too soft is equally as bad as a male dog then takes a dominant role - as often noted by women who have those nasty little snappy toy things (little dog syndrome) which are equally and if not more aggressive than a large dog because they assume themselves as the alpha in the group.

In the end of the day, its always the dog that gets blamed, and it shouldn't be like that.

David Lock

So are you guys saying that some dogs are, by nature, more aggressive but by proper training and upbringing you can curb their natural instincts?

Or are you saying that all dogs are about the same in aggression terms?

dl

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Some are worse than others, but its not totally specific to breeds, although some do have tendancies due to both overbreeding and the types of owners they attract.

For example some Rotties are utterly saft and docile, whilst some try to be quite dominant. Likewise I've seen an overbred Labrador Retreiver be extremely boisterous and difficult to control (the fact he was as bigger than the average Rottie didn't help).

IMHO the more difficult dogs are still trainable and controllable - but they need more dedicated owners that know what to do or seek someone who does. The problem is the longer its left, the more difficult it becomes and the worse the problems get.

I think in almost all cases a dog becomes aggressive either through fear or dominance, of course there is the odd exceptional screwball but I think that is the exception rather than the norm...its almost always the owner reinforcing bad behaviour and sometimes rewarding it.

R1CH D

iTrader: (8)

Last time I looked at the statistics on attacks in America, lab or lab crosses are the worst.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Makes sense as they are probably alot more Labs as they are seen as a "family dog".

Problem is this image makes people think they don't need to train them or leave them unsupervised with kids. Its still a pack animal and a descendant of a wolf, and should be treated as such....not like a human (treating dogs like humans tends to allow them to become the alpha in the pack). Whilst they are a very trainable and intelligent breed which makes them good pets and working dogs, its also easy to inadvertantly allow them to 'learn' bad habits and/or revert to its instincts.

I remember a Lab running to "greet" my dog....problem was he was on a lead being held by a ten year old girl on rollerskates and was towed by the Lab.......backwards! She went quite some distance before letting go of the lead. The dog was daft, my dog stepped behind me (the alpha ) as this galloping lump approached, I shouted "No!" at him and he stopped dead and rolled over (submission) It may have been a minor "issue" but it could have been nasty if I was walking on the other side of a busy road which was only yards away!


FENTONNNNNN!!!!!

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

I saw a list recently that had the lab and my humble jack russell higher up in the dog attack stakes than some of the so called dangerous dogs, and my italian vet was more afraid of jack russell's than pit bulls, and said they need a strong owner. lol

But jack russell's don't make for sensational headlines.

Any dog can be dangerous if it feels threatend by a situation, what a lot of people don't realise is that the dog is picking up the tension in the owner and thinks there is a threat and acts accordingly, i see this a lot with people who are a little over protective of their dog and keep it on a lead, and tense up when another dog comes close, so of course their dog becomes defensive/aggressive and they keep it on the lead and perpetuate the situation over and over.

Dogs don't really need training, it's the owners that need training to understand whats going on in the dogs mind and act accordingly.

As for people that treat there dogs like humans, they should be banned from keeping one until they have been on a course to understand dog behaviour.

And bring back the licence, as well as mandatory owner training.

CrisPDuk

I think all dogs have it in them to be aggressive given the wrong living conditions, but the the end result of a Yorkie going postal is going to a touch less serious than if a Rottweiler does

The problem is, we've had so much focus on Human Rights in this country over the past couple of decades, that the concept of Human Responsibility has fallen by the wayside

ozbod1

just wanted to say how glad i am to see some sensible answers-im impressed....if people did some research before getting a certain breed that would make a big difference....after all we all do it when looking at a new car why not do it for something you will own for 15 years or so? most dogs need a job that is what they were designed for...some of there working instinct is still there... this is why staffs/pitts may not be good with other dogs, of course you can do your best but its never 100% my own is super friendly with all but i know enough to know if a bigger male dog comes around him not waving a white flag theres always a chance! a million times ive heard staffy owners say "quote" "hes usually so soft" yeah fair do,s most are but they still have a little fighting in them! rotties are the same if you enter a garden/yard with a rottie you dont know youre asking for it...they are doing there job and guarding there home...next time you see a rottie in a garden look at it and watch its head tilt, its deciding if you are friend/foe. back to staffies i wonder how many owners knew when they got a cute lil puppy that in its prime it needs 7 miles of walking every single day? thats correct but can be cut down say if the dog is off lead running around a field etc...if they dont get this you will come home to a chewed up house....

Devildog

Some breeds are, for example, more dominant by nature, but to say some are more aggressive by nature is IMO just wrong.

Dogs will not instinctively attack humans, however they may do so if provoked or scared, primarily to defend themselves.

Aggression is probably a more human trait than anything.

Dogs can, however, be trained to attack (but again, do not assume that equates to aggression as in humans).

Many of the dog "attacks" reported, especially in the larger breeds, are not down to the dog consciously trying to cause harm, but are the result of an event or chain of events that could in 99% of cases be avoided.

Dogs dont walk down the street looking for a fight, or a victim.

Chip

Five Met Police officers hurt in dog attack, no doubt it was lovely little thing and fantastic with the kids.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-17475293

R1CH D

iTrader: (8)

It's the dull buggers who own them, problem is media only tells you about the bad things that happen with theses type of dogs and not how they are if brought up correctly.

Luan Pra bang

That link above proves the point, the dog was protecting its owner as you would expect. The bull**** headline should read Dog defends its home and family from attack by 5 invaders officers. If the home invaders had been theives instead of police the dog would be declared a hero.

David Lock

That's all well and good but say a friend with a kid had called and kid runs into house when door is opened? If dog can damage 4 cops the kid wouldn't have a chance.

dl

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

It is an instinct thing, that is certain. The Police should know better when entering a property by force....if you attack the "pack" the dog will attack them. If the "pack" is under attack, then the dog will do its best to defend it and attack the strangers.

And this is where the owner and non-owner education comes into play. If you had a 5yr old child, you would not let him/her do that in an environment where they had not met and greeted the dog beforehand. Because a screaming 5yr old shouting "look a doggy" and running to pet it would cause the dog to think its being attacked.

If strangers arrive at your home, you shut the dog away or supervise it until you are confident it has met and accepted the visitors. Until it has seen you accept them and accepted them itself you cannot let it near a stranger who is encroaching on its own territory (i.e your house). And even then you have to assume the dog has dominance over the strangers as they have not established a hierarchy in the "pack".

That can be for a Chihuahua or a Pit bull, its the same, Its just one does a hell of alot more damage. My dog is a terrier-cross-mongrel (ratter) and although he is tiny and cute his teeth are evil and could easily inflict permanent damage on a child. So supervision is always the key.

ozbod1

a few incorrect guesses going on...so...the dog that attacked police officers had been trained to attack or arm grab...proberbly by a numpty owners....the dog is said to be a pitt or type is what they say when they have no idea...proberbly staff x mastiff some chavs idea of a siiiiiick dog but to someone like me who knows what they are talking about its actually a bad cross and possibly dangerous....lastly i would guess the plod caved the door in etc thus the dog was proberbly terrified first and attacked after that....the most common dog aggression of any breed is fear aggression hence if a child went walking in to the said house the dog would have no fear-no aggression...of course children have been attacked by dogs but its very very rare....lets put it in to perspective? only one person in the uk has died of a dog attack in the last 2 years, compare that with drunk/reckless drivers or just plain murderers.....humans are dogs enemies not the other way around.

David Lock

Ok, just to lighten it up a bit here is a question about dog training/behaviour for our resident dog anoraks

We have an old Cavalier Spaniel who sleeps downstairs and wakes us up to go out for a pee at about 4 in the morning. That's fine - she's an old girl so happy to help her.

I let her out, make a cup of tea, and go back upstairs to bed. Problem is dog will sit at foot of stairs barking, waiting for one of us to come down again

Even if someone suggested letting her bark away I don't want to do this as we are in semi and neighbour is but a wall away.

So suggestions invited. David

petethemeat

iTrader: (6)

How do you currently deal with it?

David Lock

Just beat the living s..... out of her

I jest.

I waited about 15 mins for her to stop, then came down again when she stopped immediately and jumped into her basket and went to sleep.

david