David Lock

About 3 months ago I paid a self-employed tradesman to build me a small office in my garden.

Most of the work was fine but he cocked up the roof construction in a big way and is refusing to come and sort it out at his expense.

So I will have to get someone else to do the work at my cost. We are talking about a few hundred quid, not thousands btw. I can send the guy the bill but I know I might as well whistle in the wind.

So do I have any legal redress or do I admit defeat on this? If I had lots of money I would laugh it off but I haven''t. And I don't like being ripped off.

No "send the heavies" suggestions please

David

Chip

Small claims court? Or try getting advice from your local trading standards unit, they are usually very helpful.

Chip

addi monster

iTrader: (6)

what did he do wrong to the roof, this may help with answers, did you agree a certain roof ect,. in a builder and i have a discruntled customer threatening to take me down the small claims route, i cant wait to be honest, i guarenteed the roof for 10 years subject to normal wear and tear (all builders will agree) hes since let his pegeons scratch and peck the felt to bits and hes also had someone nail trellace to the felt (making holes that now leak) so this guy has not got a leg to stand on,. i hope your cercumstances are different,.

David Lock

It is a stone single storey building about 5 x 3 metres. The roof has a slope of about 9 degrees and I suggested felt. The builder said he thought tiles would look nicer and he had a source for suitable clay tiles. He also installed 2 Velux style roof windows (Keylite) which he said would be suitable.

When the tiling was done it was clear that there was some rain water leakage. When he had left the site the leak just got worse leaving small pools of water on the floor and plasterboard on the walls and parts of the ceiling soaking wet with mould forming.

After talking to a number of people including a helpful SN roofer it became clear that the tiles were wholly unsuitable and should not be used on a shallow sloping roof. Additionally the roof windows cannot be fitted in nearly flat roofs.

So I now have to remove tiles (£400 worth) and get the roof boarded, felted properly and internal damage repaired.

What do you reckon? IMHO his work is indefensible.

david

jh1-2009

I,m a bricklayer and i,ll tell you his work is dodgy from what you have said. What does he say when you talked to him about it? I,m no legal boffin, maybe trading standards!
Unfortunately some builders deem themselves capable of every aspect when they only learnt one trade at college, some not even one.
Good luck with it..

davegtt

If you can get two or three other builders to look at it and give you a quote, when you finally decide on one to put the work right, pay him a little more for his time to write up what he thinks is wrong with the original work in his professional opinion. Then send the builder the bill and a copy of the letter, if he doesnt repair it then its smal claims court. Providing you have a fully qualified builder do the repairs and will a reasonably written letter stating the problems this guy will lose in court. Dont forget through you have to prove as well that you have given the guy chance to put the roof right himself. Maybe write him a letter stating that if he doesnt come and do the repairs himself what course of action you will take from there.

Might end up taking you 6-12 months but you will get your money back

addi monster

iTrader: (6)

argh,, 9 degree pitch for tiles is not enough at all , imho 25 degrees minimum for a tiled roof, he has clearly not done this to the regs and is accountable for his errors, as said above get some builders round to give several detailed quotes, then go to court and file a small claim it will cost you £80 iirc but dont worry as you will get this back along with the total cost for the repair and your costs ect, you should serve the buidler a notice of intent and give him 30 days to respond , if he does not then you are well in your rights to send it to court,. with the pitch of the roof he is at fault plain and simple,. the court date should be whithin 3 weeks of filing it,.
i hope this has helped,

steve,.

David Lock

Thanks, all sensible comments which I agree with. In fact I have kept all e-mails where I advised about damage and sent photos which really can't be disputed. I even have a mail from him saying he will help out as he doesn't like unhappy customers as he is proud of his work. In fact we agreed a date (last week) when he would come over and get things sorted. He is not local btw. When he didn't arrive I phoned and he lost his temper telling me to f,uck off and never to call him again as I expected him to pay for the repairs. I am in the middle of drafting a factual reply saying that I now intend to get it fixed by others and will send him the bill as he has made it clear that he will not be doing the work.

I think I would be OK if it came to a small claims court but what happens when he pleads poverty and ignores their ruling for him to pay up? I know he will plead poverty which is partly true. I should also say that he is a rough character with a dodgy past and my wife doesn't want him back here although I appreciate that that isn't really germane to the case.

So you can legitimately ask why I used the guy in the first place. Well he did show a good track record in building construction but I made a misjudgment as to his character.

david

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

I have watched the show Cowboy Builders on channel 5 and all of the people have a similar complaint as you but obviously thiers is a much bigger scale. All the people on the shows are left with no compensation as the builder always claims a different story.
If you go down the small claims route you will just be more money out of pocket. I'd suggest putting it down to experience and moving on.

super_ted

iTrader: (30)

Having seen the pictures of this roof, the guy clearly did not know what he was doing regarding the roof. I'm in the process of sorting you out a quote David, should have it emailed over to you by tomorrow.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Learn a lesson & move on imho. It'll take forever to sort & take over your life ... all for £400?!

TX.

David Lock

Thanks Steve and super ted.

Ted - thanks again pal. For your info I am having some tiles removed on Monday so I'll know a lot more about what is going on underneath as it were. I'll keep in touch about this aspect.

Stevebt. Yes that is my worry - that I go through a lot of hassle for nothing except bad feeling and my wife worrying that she will get a brick through her window or her car smashed. Frustrating though

Well perhaps it won't rain for a few weeks

David

David Lock

£400 is just the start of it and even that is 10% of my annual pension

d

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

My prediction is you'll see nothing from the guy, one man band builder ... he can fold the company at any time & just **** off.

Take it as a lesson learnt, always use someone you know if at all possible to avoid situations like this.

TX.

wrx9181

iTrader: (2)

Yeah it's only £80 to fold na int it

john banks

I had a result before when I completed the small claims court documents and sent them recorded delivery to the supplier, saying that I was ready to submit them unless he paid. He paid, but he wasn't a crook, just incompetent.

Also check if you have a household or bank or other insurance policy that would cover legal advice/expenses. Try Trading Standards.

On a pension, I would be going after a few different avenues, watching that it didn't take over my life and not going after him if he has limited assets or could fold (Limited company).

David Lock

I don't disagree with you

The irony is that we moved house where I knew absolutely no one but this guy had done some minor work for me at our old gaffe and being short of work was prepared to travel and do the work at our new place. So I took him on because I did know him - but obviously not well enough!!!

d

john banks

The other thing, this may be a Scottish thing, but up here we usually have sarking and membrane under tiles. I have a shallow pantile roof that is below the pitch where pantiles work and some of the sarking is rotten. Roofer quoted £850 + VAT to remove and replace tiles, replacing timber as necessary, and adding membrane, I'll do it myself in the summer instead for much less, probably £100 materials. Single storey, but only 2m x 2.5m approx outbuilding.

dpb

What happens if you take out the skylights ?

David Lock

I used small claims once before against Kuoni and won £600 but it is time consuming.

I have been an FSB member for some years and they may offer legal cover so I might think about that. But I tend to agree with TX above that it will be a lot of hassle and the guy will simply not pay up. He is certainly not a Limited Company, just a guy with a cheap business card and an old van

d

super_ted

iTrader: (30)

It would still leak mate, the guy has put normal clay tiles on to a roof with only 9 degrees of pitch. He could have got away with it if he had used concrete interlocking tiles instead and if he had built it to minimum pitch of 22.5 degrees for these.
Lack of knowledge on the 'builders' part.

David Lock

The tiles will still have to be removed and felt applied although it will make the job easier. The skylights can be refitted but not flush fitted so an elevated section has to be constructed (ted mailed me a picture showing how this is done).

If I lose the windows I lose a lot of natural light of course and will end up with £300's worth of perfectly good but redundant windows.

d

dpb

it does seem shallow angle , dont know what my parents one in france is but thats quite low

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

Why not just pull the tiles off and add new timbers to the roof to get the right angle and re-tile with what you have. It has to be the cheaper easier option as you don't then have to worry about making the velux windows fit.

David Lock

The pitch of the roof is determined by the top of the highest side being level with an adjoining common stone wall and cannot be at a higher level. The other, lower, side of the building is determined by the height of the entrance doorway so I am stuck with that shape/pitch.

d

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

Have you asked the planning department on this or building regs as they are still there to help if your after advice.

tarmac terror

iTrader: (2)

Did you engage with the building contol department of your council when building or modifying your outbuilding?

Reason I ask is, I built an extension to my home, admittedly it was living space which is treated differently - building contol imposed a lot of requirments above and beyond what the builder had advised. It made the job more costly but ultimately has made it a much beter job. If there were engaged were they happy with the type of tiles used against the pitch angle of the roof?

skoobidude

In the meantine can you cover it with tarpaulin or something similar to keep the bad weather out?

David Lock

Yes I have earmarked a large sheet of pond liner for this and will make up some sandbags to hold it down.

david

dpb

Will you need any more work done by this guy , or has he had all the money / was it a 'cheap' job