Strathclyde fire and rescue
16 November 2011, 04:23 PM
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Strathclyde fire and rescue
Never thought id see the day when a Scottish fireman put his own safety
first before a badly hurt woman.
Stick a harness on tie it to your trucks back axle if you have to.
Shame on you.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-west-15739209
first before a badly hurt woman.
Stick a harness on tie it to your trucks back axle if you have to.
Shame on you.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-west-15739209
16 November 2011, 04:30 PM
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I can believe this as I witnessed a guy lose his foot due to the utter incompetence of a senior fire officer. I have a lolt of respect for fireman but the people who run the service have not got a clue.
16 November 2011, 05:23 PM
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Never thought id see the day when a Scottish fireman put his own safety
first before a badly hurt woman.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-west-15739209
first before a badly hurt woman.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-west-15739209
"During evidence the inquiry heard that Ms Hume's rescue was delayed as firefighters who volunteered to be lowered down were over-ruled by senior officers for health and safety reasons."
It appears red tape and policy caused this. Not that fact that no-one wanted to.
16 November 2011, 06:46 PM
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Terrible.Just proves that Health & Safety is an oxymoron.It didn't help her health or safety.
H&S is useful to stop idiots from suing you when they do something stupid but this was a professional service with the skills & supervision on-site to safely & effectively perform there duty.
It's why the police didn't act more quickly during the riots;because their bosses (politicians) were away on holiday so they froze because they could not get the all clear.
H&S is useful to stop idiots from suing you when they do something stupid but this was a professional service with the skills & supervision on-site to safely & effectively perform there duty.
It's why the police didn't act more quickly during the riots;because their bosses (politicians) were away on holiday so they froze because they could not get the all clear.
16 November 2011, 06:59 PM
#7
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A few winters ago whilst my wife was driving home in a snow blizzard, a tree came down on her car.
She rang me and I left home to go to her, I arrived as the Firemen/women did too.
What I witnessed was pathetic ... Firemen/Women looking completely lost - they did seem just kiddies - maybe 20 - 35 years old, but still, they were useless!
The road was closed - the tree covered the road ... it needed cutting up, the whole town was gridlocked, something needed doing.
Myself and another bloke directed traffic, someone else went and got a chainsaw, others pulled the tree off the car ... I then sorted the car out ........ within 1 hour we had the road open.
We sent the useless Firemen/women away to play with their playstations and to manage all their other businesses and jobs .... utterly useless!! Leadership qualities ZERO.
Then, as if by magic, they decide they are worth £35,000 a year and go on strike!!
She rang me and I left home to go to her, I arrived as the Firemen/women did too.
What I witnessed was pathetic ... Firemen/Women looking completely lost - they did seem just kiddies - maybe 20 - 35 years old, but still, they were useless!
The road was closed - the tree covered the road ... it needed cutting up, the whole town was gridlocked, something needed doing.
Myself and another bloke directed traffic, someone else went and got a chainsaw, others pulled the tree off the car ... I then sorted the car out ........ within 1 hour we had the road open.
We sent the useless Firemen/women away to play with their playstations and to manage all their other businesses and jobs .... utterly useless!! Leadership qualities ZERO.
Then, as if by magic, they decide they are worth £35,000 a year and go on strike!!
Last edited by pslewis; 16 November 2011 at 07:02 PM.
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16 November 2011, 10:35 PM
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A few winters ago whilst my wife was driving home in a snow blizzard, a tree came down on her car.
She rang me and I left home to go to her, I arrived as the Firemen/women did too.
What I witnessed was pathetic ... Firemen/Women looking completely lost - they did seem just kiddies - maybe 20 - 35 years old, but still, they were useless!
The road was closed - the tree covered the road ... it needed cutting up, the whole town was gridlocked, something needed doing.
Myself and another bloke directed traffic, someone else went and got a chainsaw, others pulled the tree off the car ... I then sorted the car out ........ within 1 hour we had the road open.
We sent the useless Firemen/women away to play with their playstations and to manage all their other businesses and jobs .... utterly useless!! Leadership qualities ZERO.
Then, as if by magic, they decide they are worth £35,000 a year and go on strike!!
She rang me and I left home to go to her, I arrived as the Firemen/women did too.
What I witnessed was pathetic ... Firemen/Women looking completely lost - they did seem just kiddies - maybe 20 - 35 years old, but still, they were useless!
The road was closed - the tree covered the road ... it needed cutting up, the whole town was gridlocked, something needed doing.
Myself and another bloke directed traffic, someone else went and got a chainsaw, others pulled the tree off the car ... I then sorted the car out ........ within 1 hour we had the road open.
We sent the useless Firemen/women away to play with their playstations and to manage all their other businesses and jobs .... utterly useless!! Leadership qualities ZERO.
Then, as if by magic, they decide they are worth £35,000 a year and go on strike!!
mb
16 November 2011, 10:49 PM
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the good old fire service, having had a recent experience with a "chief fireman" I have sadly lost all respect for anything to do with the fire service, I would not **** on one if he was on fire. They seem to revel in making everything a big drama with out actually getting anything done....
16 November 2011, 11:13 PM
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unfortunatley very tightly controlled service,
red tape and health and saftey mean taking undue risk would end up with the fire firefighter being disciplined in certin cases
also if a firefighter enters a risk situation and becomeshurt/trapped themselves they then become another casulaty needing rescued,
as ever negatives make the headlines, the rest of the good jobs they do largley go un-noticed, these gys cut people out of cars at RTC's, save numerous lifes ect
was only last year a firefighter in edinburgh was killed trying to save casualties in a burning building, leaving a wife and kids behind.
there not paid to risk there lives, but to try and rescue/help people without risking there own health and saftey. they have a duty of care to themselves and there collegues
red tape and health and saftey mean taking undue risk would end up with the fire firefighter being disciplined in certin cases
also if a firefighter enters a risk situation and becomeshurt/trapped themselves they then become another casulaty needing rescued,
as ever negatives make the headlines, the rest of the good jobs they do largley go un-noticed, these gys cut people out of cars at RTC's, save numerous lifes ect
was only last year a firefighter in edinburgh was killed trying to save casualties in a burning building, leaving a wife and kids behind.
there not paid to risk there lives, but to try and rescue/help people without risking there own health and saftey. they have a duty of care to themselves and there collegues
16 November 2011, 11:38 PM
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and 35k a year lol
not up here anyway!
this is one single case, would anyone here seriously say theyd recklessley put there life on the line at everysingle job, considering you have family/kids at home?
the job isnt to risk there own lifes - thats how so many firefighters have been killed over the years, but to safley assist in rescues and other emergencies.
they provide an essential and often thankless task, deal with traumas many couldnt handle.
not up here anyway!
this is one single case, would anyone here seriously say theyd recklessley put there life on the line at everysingle job, considering you have family/kids at home?
the job isnt to risk there own lifes - thats how so many firefighters have been killed over the years, but to safley assist in rescues and other emergencies.
they provide an essential and often thankless task, deal with traumas many couldnt handle.
17 November 2011, 12:03 AM
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It appears they did.
"During evidence the inquiry heard that Ms Hume's rescue was delayed as firefighters who volunteered to be lowered down were over-ruled by senior officers for health and safety reasons."
It appears red tape and policy caused this. Not that fact that no-one wanted to.
"During evidence the inquiry heard that Ms Hume's rescue was delayed as firefighters who volunteered to be lowered down were over-ruled by senior officers for health and safety reasons."
It appears red tape and policy caused this. Not that fact that no-one wanted to.
17 November 2011, 12:13 AM
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to ensure the saftey of your work force, why else?
there is no need for firefighters to die.
usually a DRA will be carried out on the scene, that can only be gathered with sufficient knowlegde of the cicumstnaces,
say your icident commander, you send two men into perform a resue, the building collapses or any number of other risks happens, who ends up in court, when famileis want answers or lawsuits - the cheifs face prison sentances if they make the wrng call and someone is killed becasue of there decision/or indecision
there is no need for firefighters to die.
usually a DRA will be carried out on the scene, that can only be gathered with sufficient knowlegde of the cicumstnaces,
say your icident commander, you send two men into perform a resue, the building collapses or any number of other risks happens, who ends up in court, when famileis want answers or lawsuits - the cheifs face prison sentances if they make the wrng call and someone is killed becasue of there decision/or indecision
17 November 2011, 12:25 AM
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I won't comment on the specific incident as with the advantage of hindsight and all the facts there are never any difficult decisions to make.
I've seen enough colleagues risk plenty though, especially where women and kids are concerned to know that that is the norm.
The flip side though is that three Warwickshire fire officers are currently awaiting trial after being charged with manslaughter on health & safety grounds following the deaths of four firefighters at an incident.
I've seen enough colleagues risk plenty though, especially where women and kids are concerned to know that that is the norm.
The flip side though is that three Warwickshire fire officers are currently awaiting trial after being charged with manslaughter on health & safety grounds following the deaths of four firefighters at an incident.
Last edited by Daz34; 17 November 2011 at 12:26 AM.
17 November 2011, 06:36 AM
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I won't comment on the specific incident as with the advantage of hindsight and all the facts there are never any difficult decisions to make.
I've seen enough colleagues risk plenty though, especially where women and kids are concerned to know that that is the norm.
The flip side though is that three Warwickshire fire officers are currently awaiting trial after being charged with manslaughter on health & safety grounds following the deaths of four firefighters at an incident.
I've seen enough colleagues risk plenty though, especially where women and kids are concerned to know that that is the norm.
The flip side though is that three Warwickshire fire officers are currently awaiting trial after being charged with manslaughter on health & safety grounds following the deaths of four firefighters at an incident.
Risked Disciplinary action !!! - When a womens life was at risk how pathetic does that sound.
Some leadership that
17 November 2011, 09:05 AM
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17 November 2011, 10:34 AM
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Why spend time rescuing people when they could be doing things like this.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...st/5216244.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...st/5216244.stm
17 November 2011, 11:31 AM
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Being a bit harsh here. When the story first came out the fire guys slammed the health and safety brigade saying if it had happened a week earlier they'd have been allowed to rig a scaffold and get her out. Then someone with a degree in clipboard management comes along and simply to justify their own existence makes a new rule which says you need someone from mountian rescue etc to do this type of work.
Which ever idiot made that ruling should be fired immediately.
5t.
Which ever idiot made that ruling should be fired immediately.
5t.
17 November 2011, 11:32 AM
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This kind of story is the sort of thing which leaves one in despair these days.
Pete's story is a perfect indication of the general attitude which is generated by the oh so important PC Plonking Health and Safety requirements which seem to rule everything that anyone wants to do in this country these days.
That poor woman should have been pulled out of the hole straightaway after the fire service had arrived. What has happened to their training to rescue people in need and the ability to assess a situation and take appropriate action? Wittling on about their equipment and training etc. and that it was too dangerous was absolutely ridiculous and that oaf in charge bears the full responsibilty for her unnecessary death. As someone said above, they could have rigged up a hoist on a tripod in the time. Are people not able to work out a simple priority and to think out a way to use their equipment to effect a comparatively simple rescue? Isn't that what the fire service is paid for?
That man in charge is obviously not competent at his job if he is so dependent on footling regulations rather than leaving that poor woman in pain in that hole for so many hours. He deserves the push if only for other people's protection in possible future instances.
Les
Pete's story is a perfect indication of the general attitude which is generated by the oh so important PC Plonking Health and Safety requirements which seem to rule everything that anyone wants to do in this country these days.
That poor woman should have been pulled out of the hole straightaway after the fire service had arrived. What has happened to their training to rescue people in need and the ability to assess a situation and take appropriate action? Wittling on about their equipment and training etc. and that it was too dangerous was absolutely ridiculous and that oaf in charge bears the full responsibilty for her unnecessary death. As someone said above, they could have rigged up a hoist on a tripod in the time. Are people not able to work out a simple priority and to think out a way to use their equipment to effect a comparatively simple rescue? Isn't that what the fire service is paid for?
That man in charge is obviously not competent at his job if he is so dependent on footling regulations rather than leaving that poor woman in pain in that hole for so many hours. He deserves the push if only for other people's protection in possible future instances.
Les
17 November 2011, 11:40 AM
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Les,
also missing the point. It wasn't about safety of the fire crew, the issue is that if they'd tried to lift her out and she had ended up paralysed she could have sued them for millions.
The fire service did lower someone in, the guy stayed with her giving her oxygen and first aid. The problem was this bit:
"They were apparently told they could not aid Mrs Hume because regulations stated their equipment was for saving themselves, not members of the public."
So although they wanted to they weren't allowed.
5t.
also missing the point. It wasn't about safety of the fire crew, the issue is that if they'd tried to lift her out and she had ended up paralysed she could have sued them for millions.
The fire service did lower someone in, the guy stayed with her giving her oxygen and first aid. The problem was this bit:
"They were apparently told they could not aid Mrs Hume because regulations stated their equipment was for saving themselves, not members of the public."
So although they wanted to they weren't allowed.
5t.
17 November 2011, 12:31 PM
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17 November 2011, 01:35 PM
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Thanks to clipboard man that's the case.
They did. As I already said in this thread, the week before they'd have been allowed to use the kit they had on board to rescue her.
5t.
So why didn't they have equipment to save members of the public? Is that not an eventuality that's given any thought in the fire service?
Dave
Dave
5t.
17 November 2011, 03:59 PM
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Why spend time rescuing people when they could be doing things like this.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...st/5216244.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...st/5216244.stm
18 November 2011, 11:05 PM
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A few winters ago whilst my wife was driving home in a snow blizzard, a tree came down on her car.
She rang me and I left home to go to her, I arrived as the Firemen/women did too.
What I witnessed was pathetic ... Firemen/Women looking completely lost - they did seem just kiddies - maybe 20 - 35 years old, but still, they were useless!
The road was closed - the tree covered the road ... it needed cutting up, the whole town was gridlocked, something needed doing.
Myself and another bloke directed traffic, someone else went and got a chainsaw, others pulled the tree off the car ... I then sorted the car out ........ within 1 hour we had the road open.
We sent the useless Firemen/women away to play with their playstations and to manage all their other businesses and jobs .... utterly useless!! Leadership qualities ZERO.
Then, as if by magic, they decide they are worth £35,000 a year and go on strike!!
She rang me and I left home to go to her, I arrived as the Firemen/women did too.
What I witnessed was pathetic ... Firemen/Women looking completely lost - they did seem just kiddies - maybe 20 - 35 years old, but still, they were useless!
The road was closed - the tree covered the road ... it needed cutting up, the whole town was gridlocked, something needed doing.
Myself and another bloke directed traffic, someone else went and got a chainsaw, others pulled the tree off the car ... I then sorted the car out ........ within 1 hour we had the road open.
We sent the useless Firemen/women away to play with their playstations and to manage all their other businesses and jobs .... utterly useless!! Leadership qualities ZERO.
Then, as if by magic, they decide they are worth £35,000 a year and go on strike!!
sorry but thats the way you sound.Back to reality I feel for the firmen, as our work has also gone PC mad. Lets say one of the fireman says feek it put a rope on me I am goin down to get her. Breaks his arm get pulled back up, One week later went against his senior has to attend a fact finding investigation. Then sacked for his troubles, life is precious but so are jobs in this sad day and age .
Last edited by daviee; 18 November 2011 at 11:17 PM.
19 November 2011, 05:53 AM
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A few winters ago whilst my wife was driving home in a snow blizzard, a tree came down on her car.
She rang me and I left home to go to her, I arrived as the Firemen/women did too.
What I witnessed was pathetic ... Firemen/Women looking completely lost - they did seem just kiddies - maybe 20 - 35 years old, but still, they were useless!
The road was closed - the tree covered the road ... it needed cutting up, the whole town was gridlocked, something needed doing.
Myself and another bloke directed traffic, someone else went and got a chainsaw, others pulled the tree off the car ... I then sorted the car out ........ within 1 hour we had the road open.
We sent the useless Firemen/women away to play with their playstations and to manage all their other businesses and jobs .... utterly useless!! Leadership qualities ZERO.
Then, as if by magic, they decide they are worth £35,000 a year and go on strike!!
She rang me and I left home to go to her, I arrived as the Firemen/women did too.
What I witnessed was pathetic ... Firemen/Women looking completely lost - they did seem just kiddies - maybe 20 - 35 years old, but still, they were useless!
The road was closed - the tree covered the road ... it needed cutting up, the whole town was gridlocked, something needed doing.
Myself and another bloke directed traffic, someone else went and got a chainsaw, others pulled the tree off the car ... I then sorted the car out ........ within 1 hour we had the road open.
We sent the useless Firemen/women away to play with their playstations and to manage all their other businesses and jobs .... utterly useless!! Leadership qualities ZERO.
Then, as if by magic, they decide they are worth £35,000 a year and go on strike!!
19 November 2011, 06:35 AM
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Last word on this one is these men LET the lassie die - dont dress it up with whos fault it was or what regulation stopped who doing what .
In Chilie they sent a man 700m down in a metal coffin with a real chance of not making it - these boy wouldnt go 60ft.
Hopefully one of them will fall on his sword but i very much doubt it -Il let you have your own thoughts about that.
Iain.
In Chilie they sent a man 700m down in a metal coffin with a real chance of not making it - these boy wouldnt go 60ft.
Hopefully one of them will fall on his sword but i very much doubt it -Il let you have your own thoughts about that.
Iain.