The Dogs B******s

Looks bad,feared more than ten have been killed

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Very bad indeed.

David Lock

Awful news. I can't remember anything quite so bad for a long time?

And so many vehicles catching fire

Here's hoping that alll injured will recover as soon as they can

dl

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

This will put a dent in the Tories' idea of an 80mph limit on motorways.

Of course in THIS country, we wouldn't DREAM of having a double limit like the French do: 130kph, but 110kph in falling rain etc.

Frosticles

iTrader: (1)

Horrific. Reminds me of the "Big one" on the M6 which I narrowly missed.

RobsyUK

iTrader: (2)

Truly breath taking.. Seen the vido of the fire on skynews...!!!

brendy76

iTrader: (6)

I heard (this is only here say until proven) that there was a fireworks display in the vacinity of the crash and 'could' be down to rubbernecking. Awful for anyone to go through regardless.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Same here; we were all heading back from the Lake district back to Brum. Friends who were travelling back ahead of us missed it as it happened behind them, and it missed us as it was infront about 10-20 miles- traffic just stopped and we took a decision to jump off at a nearby junction and take an alternate route...this was before the police had shut the motorway and divert traffic. Meanwhile my uncle was caught in a back end of it (not the actual crash but a mini pile up about 50 cars behind) in his 6month old Jag....which got boxed in as cars crashed around him, damaging every body panel bar the roof.


Methinks some people didn't slow down enough in that rainstorm we had yesturday. With too many following too close. Doesn't take much - one or two cars and suddenly fifty cars are involved. Anyone remeber that POlice Camera Action video of the dozy Cavelier driving slamming on the brakes and spinning in the fast lane....who then recovered and carried on...leaving a mass of cars and trucks piling up and crashing in his wake?

And another moan, what is it with surface water on motorways these days? Why the hell has has most of the M6 round Birmingham been resurfaced to collect water in lane 3? Having just driven 500miles across Spain in terrential downpours (I was in the same mountains that caused the flash flood in Benidorm that washed away that couple)...their motorways don't collect water (there is enough camber to let it run straight into storm channels), no matter how hard it rains....and when it rains there its ten times as much down pour as what we have in the UK.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Whilst FRENCH motorways are dreadful in the rain.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Looking at the overhead pics, there are two lightly damaged cars way out infront I'm guessing they are the cause or part of it; The ones right at the front driving away oblivious, as usual, probably after slamming the brakes on hard when entering a heavy fog patch then carrying on. I had that yeturday with an Audi driver in heavy rain...bricked it when overtaking a HGV kicking up heavy spray and panic-braked for no reason. He did this three times infront of me before getting out of my way...had I not left sufficient gap there would have been a pile up on the M40 too!

But the HGVs behind magnified the severity by ten fold. Looks like one crossed lanes to avoid another HGV infront....taking out a load of cars with it. Rather hit a few cars than another HGV? I could be wrong and thats how they slid to a halt, but the driver will need to do some explaining.

Regardless, they were travelling too close, too fast and I guarantee that some drivers of both cars and HGVs didn't turn on their fogs or hazards when encountering slow traffic infront. And I wonder how clean the trailer/car lights are? One thing Spanish drivers are good at is using harzards in slowing traffic and rear fogs in, er fog....everyone is s**t scared of a dozy brandy-fuel-pedro still asleep after siesta pilling into the back of everyone.

[ /armchair expert]

DYK

I think a lot of car drivers put themselves in harms way around HGV'S.pulling sharply in front of them to exit a jnc,pulling out from the inside lane to the middle lane without indicating,or from the outside lane to middle lane not indicating/not keeping a distance far enough behind the truck before pulling out,truck driver don't even know a car is behind.cars entering a motorway and instead of coming in behind a truck if they can't safely come in front,they will try to race down the slip road to get in front of it.Trucks having to pull out in the middle lane because a car is going slow on the inside lane,only for then the car driver to start speeding up the moment the truck is alongside the car.Inpatient drivers on our roads,drive beyond what they are capable of doing,Some examples that i see happen quite often..Of course some truck drivers are not blameless,but i see a lot more inexperienced/inpatient drivers in cars..





RIP to those that died.

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

My thoughts go out to all those Families who have lost loved ones My girlfriends brother was heading back from Bristol but delayed his journey thankfully or he would have been caught right up.

finalzero

They are already talking about as if speed was the ONLY factor here...even though witnesses repeated the same causes i.e. Fog, rain, black smoke.

I doubt going slower would have avoided this tragic event but its given the PC brigade more ammo.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

And its not the actual speed that is the problem....its the DIFFERENCE in speed that is the big issue...if everyone (cars and HGVs) did 70 mph there would be less of a problem (has anyone ever studied Production Flow Analysis? )

This is why I don't really want a 80mph limit. Its bad enough having a 20mph speed difference between car and HGV traffic, a 30mph difference in speed is too much at busy times. IMO.

The exception is if we have no overtaking allowed for HGVs at busy times of the day - like France.

An0n0m0us

I've really found the story of what happened quite hard to stomach. Thinking about what happened and what some of the dead would have experienced in their final moments is stomach churning. RIP those who died and I truly hope they were already gone before the fireball. I also feel for the emergency services who have had to search the charred wreckage, not a job i'd do for all the money in the World.

The witness accounts of the sudden 'black fog' that descended on the carriageway doesn't bode well for the rugby club who had just had their firework display.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

If its the case that the 'fog' was indeed from a damp bonfire, then I hope someone gets held account for allowing it in a field right next to the motorway.

sonicvr6

iTrader: (2)

the red snowplow wasnt there was it

sorry wrong thread

An0n0m0us

I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of that events organiser right now. The witness accounts and the fact the police are now investigating that event says a lot. I've never seen black fog before, always been white to me so black fog sounds a lot like smoke to me.

craigfturbo2000

On the m42 on friday a hgv was behind me, the vehicle in front was slowing so i slowed down to maintain the gap, said hgv then pulled out to overtake. car in front increased speed so i did gradually to keep flow. hgv then pulled back in flashing his headlights an giving it loads... SOME of these guys are retards that need to account for road conditions... i did not slow down for the fun of it, but because visibility was reduced heavily due to heavy rain... I do 40-60 k a year mainly on motorways and the standard of driving from SOME hgv operatives is truly atrocious. They should not be able to overtake full stop it takes too long to complete the manouvre. im not the best driver in the world but i like life, so i try to stay safe.

deepest sympathys to those involved

stay safe!

Noted bout M6 surface water

DYK

Well i can't disagree on that seen it happen myself.I have noticed the standard from some hgv drivers is pritty shocking at times,i find it more so with rigid trucks.

David Lock

In over 30 years of driving the only serious close encounters have been fog related. Even if you are traveling at what seems a safe distance behind when you can see the car in front's rear lights it is very difficult to judge if that vehicle suddenly slows or is stopped. So bang.

What would be wrong to have gantries say every mile or two with visibility sensors that switch on a warning "FOG AHEAD - 30 MAX" Signs could be overridden by motorway police and come on before foggy stretch to avoid sudden slow down. I have found that most drivers do obey overhead speed restrictions.

As it happens I was driving in Somerset at the same time on Friday and did come across sudden patches of quite dense fog.

I repeat my earlier sentiments about this sad event.

dl

oobyJu

iTrader: (2)

nightmare, deepest sympathy to all involved but a fireworks display next to a motorway?!!
this country is run by tw**s, prison for whoever allowed that please and get the freight on the railway where it belongs. The energy savings would be immense, road damage cut by 80%+, serious accidents by 50% at least and roads would be half empty (wouldn't that be nice). Oh wait...no profit in that, forget it.

Scooby B

iTrader: (2)

I was driving right near this round about the same kind of time, the fog was really bad, terrible driving conditions, if that caused the acident though maybe we will never know.

stilover

Speed is never the cause of a crash. Bad driving, or inappropriate speed (usually both together) is the cause of accidents.

Speed is not an issue if someone panic brakes. Bad driving (panic braking) is the issue.

I was once following a car (women driver) down a road. And every car she met coming the other way, she felt the need to hit the brakes. Then speed up again, only to hit the brakes when the next car came along.

Although speed will probably be blamed for the M5 crash, bad driving `will` be the reason the accident happened, not speed.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I never said it was the cause. But when you have bad driver aand a large DIFFERENCE in speed then you have a big problem

50mph HGV and 70mph+ cars being the prime example. That extra 20-30mph mean alot less margin to deal with the unexpected...be it caused by a bad driver or just an honest error of judgement (happens to everyone).

Leslie

There were fog patches and also prolongedf rain. In those conditions if someone gets it wrong and starts aquaplaning or if control is lost for any reason, when people are travelling in close company there is little chance of escaping involvement and the accident progressing into some kind of carnage, as happened this time.

I feel sorry for those who were involved, especially those who were killed of course. Must have been pretty horrifying to be in the middle of all that.

Les

Chip

Havng an HGV license myself I would say the vast majority of motorway accidents involving trucks are caused by the truck having to take immediate evasive action due to some idiot in a car driving badly ie pulling in front of the truck at the very last second to pull off at a juction.

Leslie

Yes I have seen that happening often enough too.

Les

jef

iTrader: (13)

horrible event, really feel for everyone affected,

neither hgv or light vehicle motorists can be exclusivley blamed imo

ive seen equally appauling driving from both, often trucks drifting onto hard shoulders, and sometimes swerving violently back onto road, nearly causing loss of control,

again seen cars do just as bad, cutting up trucks ect.

the speed limits for hgv s are important to be maintained imo - but they cause real problems, when overtaking, ive seen manovoures that have lasted in excess of 2 miles!!! thats just crazy. but there under pressure to deliver ect ect it frustrates other drivers, and being human you cant always behave perfectly. and can easily have clouded judgement.
as for the bonfire nearbuy, this may well become the major issue. but i dont think there is any law saying wind direction, ambeint weather conditions ect need to be assesd or recorded before lighting - that may change now.

its a unfortunate sequence of individual events combined which led to it - a real horror story.

David Lock

[quote=jef;10318143]

as for the bonfire nearbuy, this may well become the major issue. but i dont think there is any law saying wind direction, ambeint weather conditions ect need to be assesd or recorded before lighting - that may change now.

quote]

jef - I think common sense was called for and not another damn law.


And what the hell were they burning if it did result in masses of black smoke? Tyres - but they stink? Diesel?

dl