f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Retail sales are at the same level in 2008 just as we headed into recession.

Sales have fallen across the board including online.

Not looking good is it?

The Zohan

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12672276

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Does retail also apply to garden centres?

I tell you why; I visited three (I was after black petunias - don't ask ) and if there is a sector not seemingly affcted by recession. Its this. Rammed with shoppers and mile long queues at the tills. And not cheap either when compared to garden centres in Spain (Gazanias, for example are a less than a third of the price over there).

I would have thought, if people had no money, they wouldn't be going to garden centres to pay £5 a pot for a Asiatic lily which I could grow with ease from a bulb for 90p each!

So if there is still shrinkage it must be in certain sectors which are dragging the rest of the better performing sectors down with it - Electricals is a given due to the struggling conglomerates that are weighed down by the overheads of operating huge retail outlets they can ill afford (DSG, Comet etc). Then there is teh troubled clothing retailers (JJB, Jane Norman, Laura Ashley, BHS, Mothercare etc); Ones still insisting on selling 'brands' at full RRP are going to suffer overthe likes of Primark, Asda/Tesco or Matalan (which appears to have turned itself around). And don't forget the likes of HMV that basically has one of its feet cemented in the grave (despite being indirectly bailed out by the tax payer...via Lloyds/RBS ).

Leslie

It would be good to see that all the cash saved in the cuts was being used to get the country back on its feet and out of hock.

Les

Chip

Les,

If it does, it will take a long time to come through anyway, it wont just happen overnight.

Chip

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

It isn't really news though is it?

Wages have been stagnant for nearly 3 years, the government keep threatening to make everyone that works for them unemployed and we are all nagged at to spend less and save more. It also seems more 'fashionable' now more than ever to be thrifty and show off about it. Before the last recession it was all about keeping up with the 'Jones's'.
Then you have the price of fuel.....doesn't take a genius to work out that retail sales will be down.

And all this after the WORST RECESSION EVER.

Are retail sales supposed to be up 10% or something?

Leslie

Oh I realise that alright Chip, seen it all before! Can't remember it being so bad though with what appears to be a deficit which will take so many years to reduce to a comparatively manageable level. You really have to work at it to create such a National Debt as that.

Les

Leslie

Not surprising either though, when you have a Chancellor backed by his party who spends all those years overborrowing in order to make the economy look artificially strong in order to achieve re-election as well as flogging off half the national gold reserve for peanuts.

We have already spent all those non existent pay rises etc. and now have to pay it back as will our grandchildren also. No point in whining about our present position which is unavoidable in the circumstances.

Les

JTaylor

"no more boom and bust"

Incompetence or an untruth?

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Spot on. Seriously, I get so fed up with all the doom mongerers on here.
Back in 2008, I remember hearing people saying that by 2009, we would all be living in tents.
Move on and try to improve your own financial position.
The government won't do it for you. Never have and never will.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

And F1 Fan

Petem95

The problem is people have got the wrong idea of what is a 'normal' economic situation. This country, and many others in the Western world have been living in a totally unsustainable way for a number of decades.

Everyone has got used to the nanny state and high living standards, but this has all been fueled by massive, and now almost crippling debts - both government and consumer. Now that the crazy lending is stopping, and a huge amount of government income is spend on servicing debt, where will the money come from for the party to continue?...

Answer is it won't - we'll have to get used to massively reduced government and personal expendature. This is happening quite slowly, but just look at stuff like social services, the NHS and public sector pensions - it's just all pie-in-the-sky being able to afford everything in it's current state.

Drops in retail sales likely to continue for years IMO, as people have less disposible income.

What really gets me though is the housing market stalemate - prices are just fantasy now based on the current and future economic outlook, and the situation will only get worse, yet sellers just won't face up to fact that you get a massive hangover after a massive party! Hair-of-dog only works for so long!

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

I wasnt posting it as news but as a ... oh what's the point as you won't get it anyway!!!

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Of course you weren't.

Jamz3k

Down 2%? I would say that figure is very optimistic!

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

I see a massive shift from home-ownership to rental over the next 20 years. The deposit's needed now are just stupid. £40k for a decent mortgage on a £200k 3 bed house?
Can't see many 21 year olds being able to save that....ever!

zip106

Bargains to be had in the shops though.
Only yesterday the wife and I happened to wander into our local Vivienne Westwood shop as she wanted a couple of dresses.

We'd only been in the store 2 minutes and the sales chap had offered us 25% off 2 dresses and a handbag for her and a jacket for me.

Within another 2 minutes I'd haggled nearly 35% off my jacket and 30% off the handbag

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

That's because they are massively marked up to start with.

Oldest trick in the book.

zip106

I can understand that with normal run-of-the-mill items, but we're talking about 2 one-off dresses here from a famous designer.

You could say everything we buy is massively marked up - cars, food, every single item of clothing etc... but if you don't haggle you pay the full cost.

For comparison, what I paid for the jacket I'd have had to pay more for a bog standard every-one's-got-one Boss jacket. (which certainly aren't worth half what they sell for!)

edit - I know about mark-up, my father was in retail for 40 years

Ryan@Indigo-GT

iTrader: (4)

I just blame the government!

zip106

Which one?

Maggies'?
Heaths'?
Lloyd Georges'?

Or even Pitt the Youngers'?

Ryan@Indigo-GT

iTrader: (4)

The Chinese government, they're taking over the world!

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Na, it's the those sneaky Russians that we all need to watch out for!

stilover

Thankfully the world is still spinning. Otherwise we'd all fall off.

GlesgaKiss

Not a good thing for all the people in retail losing their jobs, but ultimately it's difficult to see what else can happen? I think Pete summed it up quite well, at some point you have to face reality. Working in construction (mainly agricultural and small industrial buildings) we've been lucky so far in that there are still people wanting new buildings put up through all this. Recently been very busy. Something I've often thought when it comes to the transition from retail to agriculture and industry again (if we can't continue to finance the consumer economy with debt) is that there will be demand for my services from the shift. But if the shift did happen there would be so many industrial buildings freed up by bust consumer services that there would likely be enough to go round for any manufacturing co's etc.

Agriculture maybe, but then again perhaps people would just have to make do with what they already had. One thing's for sure, if the day of reckoning comes soon - i.e. another credit crunch/proper recession - then there will definitely be at least a short to medium-term drop off in demand for pretty much everything while things are sorted out. I am not expecting to be able to make a living if that does occur.

Most sensible people know what the right thing is though. This lingering situation and the astronomical house prices aren't doing anyone any good. Neither is having to finance all this consumer debt (which is essentially what the public debt is too, as it certainly hasn't been put to productive use). So it might be necessary to grin and bear these falls in the official stats - and the consequences for ourselves - for a few years to come. If not, it's possible we could end up in a much worse situation by delaying it.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Why is it you think you know better than me as to what this thread is about? Most other posters seemed to have contributed without trying to take the ****. If you want to try and act smart fair enough I guess as in your case it has to be an act. Idiot!

Adrian F

Of course consumer spending is down the governmant is making 10,000s thousands of people unemployed plus the millions already living on benefit and with the massive increase in Taxation over the last 13 years people dont have cash to spend and now inflation is running away as they just keep printing money.

Any GCSE economics student would tell you that printing money (now called QE) will devalue the money by raising inflation.

fast bloke

I take it you didn't bother with reading the news or doing GCSE economics then

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Oh dear. Same ****e, different day.

You really do bore me now.
Have you got nothing better to do than to try and prove that you are better than the next man?

My comment on here was valid. This is not news. It doesn't surprise anyone. You are just stating again, what 99% of people on this planet already know.
The world economy is in a bad way. That doesn't mean that life is going to stop.
If this wasn't you just trying to be clever by copying what was on the BBC news website and stating the bleeding obvious, what was it? Enlighten us.