tony de wonderful

Utter madness it would seem?

I was listening to a debate on R5 this morning, it was interesting. It would seem that despite the fact that many people are sick or and worried by the flood of people into this country, the lefty pro-unconditional immigration/asylum for all etc just seem to totally have the debate cornered and owned.

It just seems they have to cry racism and 'discrimination' etc and 'right to family life' or other 'human rights' and the other side of the argument just packs up and goes home.

Is there an articulate voice against immigration, or just voices beyond the pail, i.e BNP?

What is legitimately wrong with not wanting to over-populate this country too much and being a social conservative?

These awful lefty types just seem to think that we'll have this multi-cultural utopia if we let anyone come here. So much injustice and so little time to fight it! We can save everyone who is oppressed and suffering!

Now I have to be honest, and years ago I might have believed that crap, but having traveled a fair bit especially to some less than savory countries, I've come to believe that (stable) western democracy is an exception and something to be conserved...it's a good thing...and more fragile than you might think! And it doesn't just 'happen' it needs to be maintained! Much of the world is dysfunctional and poorly socialised, bad regimes, bad education, bad institutions, bad cultural norms and conventions.

I don't believe that flooding our country with a) these people who have never been through our education system (education perpetuates democracy by socialising i.e John Dewey) b) over-populating c) causing social tensions and instability - is in anyway a good thing! Why do it?

I don't believe we have any unconditional duty to save everyone who suffer. It's hubris and arrogance to think we can. People will always suffer. Leave saving people to the individual and his/her conscience not to the state. These lefty idiots just don't seem to get that.

The Dogs B******s

We need to close our borders before its to late,,,,,,,,,,,sh*t,,,,,,,,,,its to late

GlesgaKiss

Irony abounds where the left are concerned.

Mrfastbaz

close the borders and have a crack down on any illegals found lock them up until they can be sent back from where they came...not as happens now give them a ticket and ask them to report to an immigration centre seen this on the tv a couple of times and guess what they hardly ever turn up we have an immigartion office near to where i live and every day there are swarms of people from oversaes..... a long way overseas queing to obtain permits, visas etc enough is enough .. the government should look after their own people first

dpb

What else could they realistically do , yo can call it an amnesty or whatever you like

The danger now is a swing in the other direction whereby people who really need sanctuary are not even given the chance

RA Dunk

Anybody else notice that we need to que for 'everything' nowadays, go for petrol we need to que, go for shopping we need to que, go to the post office its a massive que, even with more people buying online than ever any public place is out the door with people.

tony de wonderful

Er we could deport them.

We never asked them to come here after all.

bigsinky

thank **** i live in northern ireland where we live in a province of racial intolerence, not only do we kill each other still because of our religion, we pay special attention to those immigrants and suffer none to pass. we just petrol bomb them out or intimidate them. not something to be proud of but i don't have to pass a begging eastern european every 10 yards in belfast. you guys in engerland are too soft. send them all back home again. dole scrounging dodgy *******

The Zohan

In addition to it saying to any thinking of coming here illegally it's OK because if you get here eventually you can stay and you will be entitled to x, y & z - sets a dangerous precedent which will cost us all in the long run. No wonder so many illegals cross so many 'safe' EU countries to get here!

I despair, we are a smallish island already creaking with people, we have an over worked health service, schools with not enough places problems with the economy and high unemployment and yet the left see the answer as making our problems worse!

Stupid short-sighted ideas like this will just lead to more trouble in this country and also gives the far right loads more ammunition.

The Zohan

Thats just it, they find it very difficult to because they have to know where thry have come from, proof of thier heritage if you like otherwise they cannot. Needless to say illegals 'loose' thier documents (if they had any in the first place).

It's about time we took this seriously and stopped them coming in in the first place!

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Good..............then maybe, just maybe, they will go to the countries they are legally entitled to in order to claim asylum, SINCE THEY CAN'T DO SO HERE, AND NEVER COULD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mrfastbaz

plus 1 wake up cameron and friends take note of what is happening the natives are revolting enough is enough... start to look after your own.....

Ant

It makes me quite angry watching that show border force they catch them and tell them to report in and they just go AWOL

tony de wonderful

Yeah amnesties in the past such as in Spain and the US have resulted in more illegals coming - by orders of magnitude.

tony de wonderful

Shouldn't be our problem if they lose documentation.

Of course we can deport them...it's just we don't want to.

The Zohan

Simply not the case certainly in all cases - Afghanistan and Iraq for example will not accept them back without proof of where they are from and here lies the problem.

I cannot see how rewarding them for breaking our laws by entering the country illegally can ever be them being allowed to stay - it is just plain wrong! It is just encouraging more of the same.

We have to put a stop to them entering the country in the first place or find a way of identifying where they are from so the proof is there and we can get rid of them. This will help cut down on those coming here as well.

We are and are seen as a soft touch and this has to stop!

This thread seems a little light on the usual leftie suspects who cannot wait to play the race card and tell us that all our problems are with home grown chavs. They must still be reading the guardian and finishing their yoghurt.

This makes some interesting reading: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...tay-in-UK.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...rs-rights.html Thank you New Labour for incentivising it!
A little-known rule, introduced by Labour in 2003, allows illegal immigrants to claim "indefinite leave to remain" if they manage to live in Britain's black economy for long enough or are failed asylum seekers who manage to avoid deportation.

After 14 years they can apply to the Home Office which considers factors such as "compassionate circumstances, strength of connection to the UK and previous criminal record", before deciding whether an illegal immigrant will be allowed to stay.

If successful, the immigrant will then be allowed full access to the welfare state and be eligible to apply for a British passport.

So David Camoron where is the British Bill of Rights then?

tony de wonderful

Who cares if Afghanistan or whatever will accept them back, it's not our problem.

How many illegals get to stay in say Singapore for that reason? None, they just kick them out.

RS_Matt

Yep the race card, my christian uncle went to Pakistan, he built pubs, churches and fish shops, he then raped an Asian woman and blew up a bus carrying 45 people. ...TBF he is only a minority there but he demands anyone that slags him off be branded racist!!!

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Do you remember that NI commedian of the 70s/80s with the song

"Belfast, Belfast, what a wonderful town
It doesn't matter if your skin is brown"

Racist overtones apart, it summed up the situation perfectly

dpb

When i last looked at he news the singapore troops wont/hadnt bombed the hell out of iraq/afghanistan

The Zohan

Are you saying they have a 'right' to come here asylum seekers possibly - but not illegal immigrants surely?

dpb

Come on , theres no difference with the above audience !

The Zohan

Yes there is, with most people anyway, and as you said (earlier) this will only cast a shadow over legitimate asylum seekers, which i fully agree with.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

This amnesty could be worked in a way that could solve a few issues.

Currently we have a shed load of pending asylum seekers that have lived here for as long as Labour have been in power.

In other words, they have been here for so long it could be considered that the UK is now their home (especially if they now have family here).

What I propose is the amnesty works a bit like a illegal firearm amnesty. Those here make themselves known, we'll grant then residency and put them on the system so we know who they are, and they can work and pay tax and apply to jump through all the hoops for UK citizenship (trust me, its like performing in a circus to gain this nowadays). It gives them the chance to stay here if they want to stay here and abide by our laws and pay taxes...and dare I say it maybe even get benefits.

Then, we set a closing date (say, a years time). Afterwhich, all old/pending/outdated asylum applications are now null and void. Anyone found after this date will be deported, no questions, no mitigation, tough *******.

This closing date would be the key here. Those ignorant or intentionally hiding will get kicked out as and when they are found. And I suspect these people would be the kind of people who shouldn't be here anyway; Either through lack of integrating or because they are not who they claim to be.

The Zohan

I just do not get it, they come here illegally and then have families and that makes it ok because they have found away to beat the system and stay - it is not right and again just incentivises more illegal immigration because there is a 'work around' that gets them a free pass. It just seems WRONG!

tony de wonderful

I love the way the left turn thus around as some sort of legitimate comeuppance against our foreign policy.

Firstly are most illegals coming from Iraq or Afghanistan? Do you have evidence it is because of the conflicts or just because of the more relaxed border controls etc which are coincidental with roughly the same time frame.

Many illegals come from all over the world including Africa etc.

I thought we are trying to re-built Iraq etc, so why take all their people?

Was there a flood of refugees (to the UK) under the Soviet invasion?

Fact is these people come here because our policies are so lax and easy.

It's a system which was intended to help just a handful of genuinely persecuted people, not people who were poor or having a tough life or wanted to be openly gay in Uganda etc!

tony de wonderful

Do you not think that promising illegals benefits might attract many more?

Much of the world is in absolute poverty...here is the good life compared to that....you can live in a house and eat for free!

It's why people cross continents, all the way to Callais etc and tie themselves to the underneath of trucks (very dangerous).

The could go to any country in between and claim asylum, but they come here....because of the welfare state and soft touch.

What would you do if 10 million turned up?

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

It is wrong. But so was our asylum sytem that allowed them to stay here and allowed those still pending to disappear and be untraced. (Am I correct that we are now alot more stricter to what consitutues as asylum nowadays? So new asylum seekers are dealt with much more swiftly?)

I feel this could be a way to make it right for those who applied at a stage when Labour's asylum system was dysfunctional and who actually want to be part of the UK a chance. i.e to make what is currently wrong, better....If they stand up and be counted we'll reward them for it. We'll know who that are, where they are currently, and given them the chance to be a UK taxpayer ( ).

This should be strictly a limited oppertunity. One year to make themselves known to the authorities. After that. Goodbye.

And whilst I'm at it......find those in charge of our home office/immigration/asylum system during the Labour years when this lack of control was rife, and deport them to some some Feckistan hell hole for allowing this mess to manifest in the first place!

David Lock

Ali - that's one of the more humane posts in this sad and xenophobic thread. But you cannot send people back to countries where they will be killed/locked up or tortured as soon as they arrive.

I'm one of these "lefties" who believe that it is wrong to uproot a family that has established itself in a community and contributing to society.

And being practical the Border Agency has enough to do with the current stream of immigrants/asylum seekers without rounding up others that have been here for years.

But, as I have said many times before, get out of Europe so we can avoid tens of thousands of EU citizens coming here quite legally when things go **** up in their own countries.

dl