Dingdongler

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...googlenews_wsj

It takes a lot of strength of character to continue with what one knows is
right in the face of continual attack from all sides.

Just about everybody wants to have a dig. Labour use it for cheap political points, when deep down they know they caused most of this.

All vested interest groups complain that their standard of living will be affected. They agree something should be done but just so long as it doesn't affect them.

Well if we don't cut the deficit quickly we could face this sort of danger as well, and then interest rates could rocket.

I'd like to see how all the people out there complaining about pensions, family credit and student fees would cope if their mortgage rate suddenly shot up. A lot of them would be homeless I suspect.

For all their faults and mistakes lets take a few moments to thank our lucky stars that the Conservatives are in charge so that Labour can't bankrupt the country further

The Dogs B******s

Here come's Pete

hodgy0_2

what I find slightly ironic is that it was these global credit rating agencies (Moody’s S&P etc), working hand in glove with the rest of the finance industry that helped create the asset bubble that in part, caused the global meltdown.

They are now lecturing us on financial probity – seems a bit rum

GlesgaKiss

... which is why I voted conservative. As you say, DD, they may not be ideal (what is in politics?), but they are a lot better than the alternative.

As for the ratings agencies... you'd really assume that the top credit rating in the world would be reserved for governments where the likelihood of credit default or substantial depreciation of currency was virtually zero - a country running surpluses with massive reserves. If they are unsure about U.S. creditworthiness, then why does it still retain the top rating? If there were any doubts at all (never mind the kind of the doubts they should have here) you'd think they would not only have a negative outlook, but actually cut the rating by several degrees.

Anyone that thinks these ratings agencies aren't politically influenced (and therefore useless for their proposed purpose), is deluding themselves.

As Hodgy says, they were rating complete junk at AAA before 07/08. The implications beforehand with some of these securities was far too complicated for you and me to understand, that's fair enough, but a credit rating agency which makes it their principal concern? It's strange how much credibility they're still given in light of that.

We would definitely have been in a lot of trouble if they weren't taking the opposite course to the U.S.. They have certain luxuries to buy them time that we don't I suppose.

scud8

iTrader: (1)

The chance of a hard debt default from the US is very low given they can just turn the printing presses on. A soft default is possible as the dollar devalues against other currencies. However, neither the euro or sterling is in good shape, and a lot of developing countries peg their currencies to the dollar, so what is actually happening is the dollar is devaluing against the main commodities (oil, gold etc) and everyone's money is becoming worth less. The rating agencies would I'm sure argue that their ratings are only intended to measure the risk of hard defaults, so triple A is still justified for the US federal debt.

The PIGS (or PIIGS if you think Italy will go the same way) are in a more difficult position because they don't have the option of a soft default - the Germans control their currency and won't let it happen. The only option is to pay their way or a hard default.

Interestingly a lot of the US states are in a similar position to the PIGS. California especially has a chronic debt problem.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

F**k me, it's comedy hour!

hodgy0_2

which is traditionally how Italy used to do it, soft default, let the Lira slide and devalue - hence 2 million Lire to the pound pre Euro, presumably at one point it was at dollar parity

but as you point out no such flexibity now

Chip

Shut up, just admit he's right. And wheres this double dip you keep on harping on about

Chip

Dingdongler

What's so funny?

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Figures today are one thing, but have you actually spoken to people out there in the real world. The massive price increases on everything from food to fuel are crippling people and consumer confidence has been recorded as the lowest ever on record... FACT!!

If the consumer does not sopend the economy does not grow. The next 12 months will be very telling and please remember that the economy has not grown at all in the last 6 months and only 1.7% in the last 12 compared to the wildly optomistic forceasts.

This government are as clueless as the last lot just in a different way.

Gordo

So what's the answer, F1? Easy to keep sniping, but increasing the public debt's not the answer, either. Whatever they do people (you?) will be unhappy but fair play to Dingdongler for a sensible post on the subject.

Gordo

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Well let me ask you a question? Do you think that in 12 months time things will be better or worse?

Thanks to the cuts, the VAT increase, the huge increase in fuel, food etc.the government harping on and on about how the coountry has been wrecked by Labour, the Middle East unrest and our involvement in it and Japan's Tsunami aftermath the public in the UK are basically being worried into not spending at all.

After the January sales consumer spending has been rock bottom, manufacturing is limping along, construction has contracted, the banks still won't lend depsite Cameron repeatedly telling us he is dealing with them (as he did again in PMQ today), the economy hasn't gone anywhere in 6 months and all forecasts are for a bumpy ride. We lag way behind the likes of Germany and then you have to remember the cuts anonunced by the government haven't even started to take hold yet.

They need a slower less aggressive debt reduction strategy to let the economy stabilise and grow slowly but steadily while phasing in the debt reduction measures over a longer period of time.

And if they really want to save some money stop taking the easy road and address the hard issues like the bloated welfare state, illegal immigrants and asylum seekers who cost the country a fortune in so many ways, fighting wars we shouldn't be in, giving foreign aid to, in some cases,countries better off than us etc,

pslewis

Economy flatlined for the past 6 months - yeah, well done little rich boyz!!

They haven't a clue, haven't done a days work in their pampered lives, haven't known what it's like to be hard up, haven't grafted once for their inherited wealth .... they know less than nothing!!

Bring back Labour NOW before these rich boyz break the country while playing at being in charge ...... jolly hockey sticks, and all that!!

We are all in it together? are we fukc!!!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-sto...5875-23037485/

GlesgaKiss

I'm just wondering where people are supposed to find something to spend. There's a attractive looking pot at the end of every rainbow. Maybe the gov should direct their efforts towards that.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Well with all major essentials spiralling ever upwards price wise people won't have anything to sped of course which is why when the government is suddenly earning 7p a litre more on fuel than they were 12 mionths ago for instance you would hope they would try and do something to bring the cost of fuel down.... never mind, when every small business is bankrupt and everyone has defaulted on their mortage and is living rough then finally one of the politcians might get it as they will have no economy left to cut!

Funkii Munkii

Calm down Dear

Will

Just incase........

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Beat me to it.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Lock? Are we expecting a visit from the SN Chuckle Brothers then?

Will

Wouldn't be surprised

vindaloo

Labour are the opposition, it's their duty to make the gov't look bad. Difficult, when the only ammo they've got is the scope and scale of the cuts they'd have had to make too.

As for blaming labour.... Would you rather have had a banking and financing collapse in this country? Maybe the blood on the pavement from falling bankers would mean a drop in bankers' bonuses but the country would be a far worse state than it is now.

Labour (Brown's) PR was awful when he was ousted. He didn't have the (apparent and believable) charisma of Tony Blair and that quickly became apparent.

What the coalition is doing may be right for the country in the longer term but they're really not helping people to feel any better about their circumstances in the short term.

The "it's all Labour's fault" line is starting to get old really fast. It's about time the coalition lives on it's own merits (if it has any) rather than bleating about the previous administration.

J.

Funkii Munkii

As you say it will always be the oppositions job to make the govt look bad, likewise the party in power will always blame the previous govt's ineptitude.

The difference this time around is Labour left the Con's so much ammo they'll still be milking it in 4 years time I also believe the country will still need reminding of those horrific 13 years from time to time or will become complacent and vote the ***** back in.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

I love comments like this. No recognition of a global recession and of course you will to be one of those hundreds of thousands of people who claim that they said all along Brown was making a mess of the economy despite the fact that no one seemed to say anything of the sort before 2007

Horrific 13 years???? LOL! They were in many ways a very poor government (although no worse than the previous one), but I would hardly call their term in office horrific! If a person was wise they could have made secure their future in the 10 years from 1997 - 2007 thanks to the steadily growing and stable economy provided by a Labour government (how that must grate with some people ).

Whether you think it was all built on a house of cards or not (and in my opinion the truth lies somewhere in the middle ground) there was a decade there where it was possoble to have made the rest of your life very comfortable.... the trouble was people thought it would last forever so borrowed and borrowed some more living way beyond their means in many ways .... it all comes crashing down and they take zero responsibility for their own actions. Mind you even that is down to the government's nanny state attitude in some ways.

I think people fiorget what the country was like in the 70s ad 80s .... despite the recent recession etc. we enjoy a much higher standard of living than we did even 20 years ago. Horrific??? I think not!

GlesgaKiss

The way to get people to take responsibility is to have the economy contract as it naturally would and restructure, not to take the savings from anyone who has them and give them to people to keep spending. Spending is the problem, not the solution.

Leslie

Your comments about the economy and the reasons for its present state are absolutley right. I have been saying for some time that you cannot expect to keep the same standard of living in our present situation and the artificially generated standard during NL's reign because of the overborrowing they did to feed back into the economy without the country having earned it..

Les

Leslie

We are all intelligent enough as indeed you are too, to realise that what you have just said, especially about Labour saving the day, is complete rubbish and just won't wash.

Les

Funkii Munkii

Job Done

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Darn it... I fell for it

Dingdongler

I do recognise the global recession and the mess the bankers made, the problem is Labour thought the former would never happen and encouraged the latter.

We would have been in a position to cope with global events far better if Labour hadn't spent so much money. Things would have still been hard but nowhere near as hard had we not have such a huge structural deficit.



And actually lots of people were saying this prior to 2007, you just had to listen to the right people (and I'm not talking about Cable)

So, in my mind, the problems we are facing may well have been triggered by global events but it is Labours fault that we had no defence against them.

Somebody has to sort this mess out and it will be painful for everybody. Higher earners are not spared and the poor have not been hit hardest.

This term of office is a poisoned chalice and actually will probably mean that Cameron and his govt are thrown out in four years time, such will be the pain. So if Cameron and Osborne stick to their guns it will show that they have done whats right for the country long term rather than short term populism.
This, in my mind, will make them leaders to be proud of and true Conservatives.

Unfortunately people on the whole can be quite easily fooled, and Labour will probably convince the masses that all this pain was unnecessary and we could have just carried on as we were.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Agreed.
How can people be more responcible with their cash and spend more at the same time?
Impossible.
Things will get worse before they get better as the economy will contract. I see no other alternative. I just very, very slow growth for the next 10 years.