Nimbus

Oops...

http://www.wimp.com/airfrance/

pinkypurkhardt

iTrader: (9)

hahahaha only the french

SwissTony

iTrader: (19)

I couldnt see the end of the clip, did they get out to exchange details and breathe garlic and cheap red wine on each other whilst waving arms around in comical freeench style ?

CREWJ

Damn, that's expensive if anything broke.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

The 380 would be damaged but I bet the smaller plane was potentially a write off, would imagine that twisted it pretty badly.

Loco

iTrader: (1)

if the CRJ-700 was spun like that, without anything breaking off it, then it will most definitely have been overstressed. A380 was taxiing wayyy too fast...

Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

knock for knock for sure, that ickle plance shouldnt have been where it was, and it didnt have its hazards on

Lack of due care and attention or an SP50?

SirFozzalot

Oops!

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Come on Flightman, what's the score??

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Notice the little white blob...thats a bloke waving and shouting for the dozy CRJ to pull further forward.

Impressive how it was knocked about like a toy and stayed in one piece. Had passengers on board too!

I'm guessing its the fault of ground crew: The CRJ look like it was waiting for ground crew to arrive and wave his table tennis bats so he could park properly. The little truck on the right has a guy running from it just as the Airbus passes with the guy frantically waving: clearly shows someone on the ground fooked up.....oops (airbuses don't have wing mirrors , maybe wing cameras, there's one on the tail at least).

Something also tells me the taxi ways haven't been properly widened enough to give enough safety margin for the A380's wing span. This being JFK doesn't supirse me - they are short on space as it is (the only airport I been stuck in a traffic jam of planes queuing to take off).

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

More pics of damage for the insurance report :

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/p...hotos/155668/1





A380 pilot said it felt like hitting a pot hole

Mind, if France has potholes like the ones round here, I guess it may have felt like that

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

I wonder who's insurance will be paying on that one!

Can you imagine the response in the departure lounge when it was announced why several hundred people would not be getting to their destinations on time.

'Sorry, just a little fender bender!'

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

That'll only be good for flying in circles now:

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I'm going for 33:33:33 blame Comair, AF and JFK.

Comair should have radioed said it wasn't on teh stand
AF shouldn't have proceeded if it throught it wasn't safe to do so (may have been distracted by talk to ATC)
JFK ground crew not being in the right place at the right time and ATC letting a oversized plane taxi behind a plane not yet parked.
JFK for not widening Taxiways in a manner safe enough to accomodate the A380.

Depends on if the NTSB hate the French surrender monkeys as much as we do

(although Kudos on Sarkozy for banning Burkas and bulldozing Romanian squats )

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Actually turns out is was Air france's fault.

They thought the Comair jet was a Thai-airways plane so took out revenge;

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=60388

Leslie

In actual fact, it is usually impossible or certainly almost so to see the wing tip on an aircraft with swept wings and a big wingspan.

It would be reasonable for the french pilot taxying the aircraft to expect the the taxiway would be kept clear enough for his aircraft on either side of the taxiway.

It is normal however for the aircraft captain to be responsible to make sure the way is clear for him and if he was not sure of the clearance from the other aircraft he should have stopped.

We were certainly held responsible for avoiding any obstacle even if we could not actually see that bit of the aircraft which was in danger of collision. We relied completely on the marshall to keep us clear of the obstruction but were ultimately responsible if we hit it. If you were unsure it was down to you to stop. May seem unfair but it certainly made pilots very careful while taxying in constricted areas.

Les

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Alot of talk on PPRUNe puts 100% blame on the AF pilot. I'm guessing alot are American

I agree Les, if there is any doubt that the path is not clear then they should stop. It's something I try regularly to get through to certain female drivers when they are unsure of a situation...stop, then work it out - that means the oil pressure light, the clatter from the engine, the vibration through the steering wheel, or just squeezing down a narrowing in the road .

In this case though in the video the AF plane didn't appear to react or stop until after the collision, so the pilot in charge must have thought there was sufficient clearance. Of course a judgement error on his behalf, but questions need to be asked and blamed apportioned to why a plane was standing halfway off the stand and partly blocking the taxiway and why the AF crew wasn't notified of it.

Obviously there is a failure in procedures, as relying purely on the pilot's judgement of clearance on wings that he cannot even see leaves far too much room for human error.

Leslie

Yes I agree, but he may still get short shrift from his company.

Les

Loco

iTrader: (1)

can't blame marshallers - they are only there to help. it is the pilots responsibility. always see flight safety reports at work, and anything like this always comes back to the pilots...

Leslie

Yes it usually does as you say. But how about a situation where a marshaller is guiding an aircraft into a spot with say a stepladder which will not clear the aircraft. If the marshaller can see the stepladder but the pilot can't but he gets guided so that he hits the ladder, who would you say is to blame?

Les

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Loco

iTrader: (1)

yes, the marshaller may well be to blame, but the aircraft captain will still be found at fault at the investigation board (usually).

Leslie

Yes that is absolutely true, even if the marshaller is effectively the one who got it wrong.

Les

FlightMan

All the holes lined up didn't they?

Truck crossing the Comair stand, meant he couldn't pull up to his stop mark. Any other aircraft taxi-ing behind, other than an A380, and it wouldn't have hit it. The A380 pilot has no way of knowing where his wing tips are. As I understand it that taxi-way isn't as wide as it should be for a Code F aircraft, but JFK have an exemption from the standards.

Lots of learning to be done on this one.

Loco

iTrader: (1)

haha, that takes me back to ground school! I still remember now one of my lecturers always used to say that it is a "Sequence of events that causes accidents...". I still hear his voice in my head when I think about it! hahaha

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Flightman strangely silent on this one, hang on he was doing a week at JFK wasnt he...

Leslie

Only thing the "trappers" can say is that the 380 pilot should have realised that his wingtip might be in danger of hitting the other aircraft and therefore he should have stopped.

I wonder what will come out of the exemption to use an inadequate taxyway during the enquiry!

Les

daviee

I am sure I read somewhere that the wingspan of a A380 is 79.8m and that airports are made to accomidate a 80m square box for the planes to move about in , same artical also said that the tailspan is the same as a 737s wingspan 28.8m just shows you how big a A380 is. So I think this will be the first of many accidents around airports involving A380s.

FlightMan

Look two post up.

And no, he didn't.