Afghanistan - Bomb disposal, why do it by hand?
09 February 2011, 06:39 PM
#1
Afghanistan - Bomb disposal, why do it by hand?
Why in the 21st century do we still have soldiers finding and disabling mines and IED's by hand?
I remember a tank based thing with huge flailing chains on the front that was used to detonate mines - probably from WW2 times, what's wrong with this sort of approach?
Even once they've find them, surely a burst of automatic fire from a suitably armoured vehicle would set off the device?
I'm obviously missing something, but it baffles me why after losing so many bomb disposal soldiers why we can't remove the human element altogether.
Brave lads certainly - but why put them in this position in the first place?
I remember a tank based thing with huge flailing chains on the front that was used to detonate mines - probably from WW2 times, what's wrong with this sort of approach?
Even once they've find them, surely a burst of automatic fire from a suitably armoured vehicle would set off the device?
I'm obviously missing something, but it baffles me why after losing so many bomb disposal soldiers why we can't remove the human element altogether.
Brave lads certainly - but why put them in this position in the first place?
09 February 2011, 07:01 PM
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09 February 2011, 07:05 PM
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I have asked this as well. The thought being that some kind of roller could be pushed along fixed to, and in front of, a vehicle to set off the things. Not perfect by any means and wouldn't stop IEDs controlled by remote control. Still better than blowing up our soldiers taking them to bits by hand. Rollers could be designed so that they were reasonably bomb proof but being readily replaced if and when destroyed.
I am told by someone who has served out there that the army likes to keep evidence from IEDs and keep track of new developments in designing them. Who am I to argue with that.
dl
I am told by someone who has served out there that the army likes to keep evidence from IEDs and keep track of new developments in designing them. Who am I to argue with that.
dl
Last edited by David Lock; 09 February 2011 at 07:37 PM.
09 February 2011, 07:14 PM
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There is a few reasons why it is done by hand, but there are also vehicles out there with mine-rollers as you describe that clear major routes...
Mines are only cleared by hand as a matter of necessity, ie to clear routes that are not accessible by remote or protected equipment. IEDs again are cleared by hand as a matter of necessity, but as David said also for forensic investigation. IEDs have a signature unique to the bomb maker, and this forensic investigation both logs evidence against bomb makers, but also tracks developments in IED capabilities to allow the servicemen and women to be better equipped in terms of countering and identifying them.
Yes, finding them is half the battle, but only by exploiting them do we know what to look out for when the guys and girls are on the ground.
Read here for some more info, this is were your taxes are genuinely saving lives.
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/De...pMoshtarak.htm
Mines are only cleared by hand as a matter of necessity, ie to clear routes that are not accessible by remote or protected equipment. IEDs again are cleared by hand as a matter of necessity, but as David said also for forensic investigation. IEDs have a signature unique to the bomb maker, and this forensic investigation both logs evidence against bomb makers, but also tracks developments in IED capabilities to allow the servicemen and women to be better equipped in terms of countering and identifying them.
Yes, finding them is half the battle, but only by exploiting them do we know what to look out for when the guys and girls are on the ground.
Read here for some more info, this is were your taxes are genuinely saving lives.
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/De...pMoshtarak.htm
10 February 2011, 08:14 AM
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There is a few reasons why it is done by hand, but there are also vehicles out there with mine-rollers as you describe that clear major routes...
Mines are only cleared by hand as a matter of necessity, ie to clear routes that are not accessible by remote or protected equipment. IEDs again are cleared by hand as a matter of necessity, but as David said also for forensic investigation. IEDs have a signature unique to the bomb maker, and this forensic investigation both logs evidence against bomb makers, but also tracks developments in IED capabilities to allow the servicemen and women to be better equipped in terms of countering and identifying them.
Yes, finding them is half the battle, but only by exploiting them do we know what to look out for when the guys and girls are on the ground.
Read here for some more info, this is were your taxes are genuinely saving lives.
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/De...pMoshtarak.htm
Mines are only cleared by hand as a matter of necessity, ie to clear routes that are not accessible by remote or protected equipment. IEDs again are cleared by hand as a matter of necessity, but as David said also for forensic investigation. IEDs have a signature unique to the bomb maker, and this forensic investigation both logs evidence against bomb makers, but also tracks developments in IED capabilities to allow the servicemen and women to be better equipped in terms of countering and identifying them.
Yes, finding them is half the battle, but only by exploiting them do we know what to look out for when the guys and girls are on the ground.
Read here for some more info, this is were your taxes are genuinely saving lives.
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/De...pMoshtarak.htm
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10 February 2011, 10:54 AM
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There is a few reasons why it is done by hand, but there are also vehicles out there with mine-rollers as you describe that clear major routes...
Mines are only cleared by hand as a matter of necessity, ie to clear routes that are not accessible by remote or protected equipment. IEDs again are cleared by hand as a matter of necessity, but as David said also for forensic investigation. IEDs have a signature unique to the bomb maker, and this forensic investigation both logs evidence against bomb makers, but also tracks developments in IED capabilities to allow the servicemen and women to be better equipped in terms of countering and identifying them.
Yes, finding them is half the battle, but only by exploiting them do we know what to look out for when the guys and girls are on the ground.
Read here for some more info, this is were your taxes are genuinely saving lives.
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/De...pMoshtarak.htm
Mines are only cleared by hand as a matter of necessity, ie to clear routes that are not accessible by remote or protected equipment. IEDs again are cleared by hand as a matter of necessity, but as David said also for forensic investigation. IEDs have a signature unique to the bomb maker, and this forensic investigation both logs evidence against bomb makers, but also tracks developments in IED capabilities to allow the servicemen and women to be better equipped in terms of countering and identifying them.
Yes, finding them is half the battle, but only by exploiting them do we know what to look out for when the guys and girls are on the ground.
Read here for some more info, this is were your taxes are genuinely saving lives.
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/De...pMoshtarak.htm
I did assume that there had to be a good reason for doing it the way it is though.
Les
10 February 2011, 11:03 AM
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Also bear in mind that IEDs are not mines. You can't just hit an IED and expect it to go off, it's not as simple as that. All depends on the device, whether it has a remote trigger, whether than main charge is co-located or not etc. etc.
And you don't want it to go off anyway as you loose a lot of intel and possibly trust from locals after you blow out the side of their house.
It's a complicated business and yes, if you can use a robot, do so, but at times you need to get a human in place to disarm a device by hand.
We learned a lot from the escalation of IED technology in Northern Ireland, so our guys are very well placed to deal with the current threat. Even so, IEDs do escalate in technology used and as that happens the risks increase, so it becomes even more important to disarm and learn from it rather than cause it to detonate. It is just unfortunate that this sometimes involves the loss of one of our guys trying to meet this goal.
And you don't want it to go off anyway as you loose a lot of intel and possibly trust from locals after you blow out the side of their house.
It's a complicated business and yes, if you can use a robot, do so, but at times you need to get a human in place to disarm a device by hand.
We learned a lot from the escalation of IED technology in Northern Ireland, so our guys are very well placed to deal with the current threat. Even so, IEDs do escalate in technology used and as that happens the risks increase, so it becomes even more important to disarm and learn from it rather than cause it to detonate. It is just unfortunate that this sometimes involves the loss of one of our guys trying to meet this goal.
10 February 2011, 12:12 PM
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The number of explosive experts being lost to IED's is so severe, that the Army have broadened their drive for recruits from other services.
Couple of good friends of ours are out there right now, making a documentary on these blokes. Pretty harrowing.
Expect to see it on the Beeb before the end of the year.
Asif
Couple of good friends of ours are out there right now, making a documentary on these blokes. Pretty harrowing.
Expect to see it on the Beeb before the end of the year.
Asif
10 February 2011, 02:22 PM
#13
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what youve got to remember is that they are specialits in there jobs just like snipers are and medics all the way to the cooks. 
if you take away the human element then the bomb maker will just make bigger more advanced bombs that will cost us millions in robots.
robots would be a great idea as well but they lack the feel/human factor that so meny bomb experts use to dissarm these things.being a ex marine myself and having mates over there i hate seeing the news when someone is killed over there but that is what they train so hard for and are not forced in to the job. the guys who do this job are are top of there game but sadly the ragheads are getting more advanced all the time.
if you take away the human element then the bomb maker will just make bigger more advanced bombs that will cost us millions in robots. robots would be a great idea as well but they lack the feel/human factor that so meny bomb experts use to dissarm these things.being a ex marine myself and having mates over there i hate seeing the news when someone is killed over there but that is what they train so hard for and are not forced in to the job. the guys who do this job are are top of there game but sadly the ragheads are getting more advanced all the time.
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