Theives unlocking cars remotely
10 October 2010, 08:09 PM
#1
Theives unlocking cars remotely
Few months back, the old neighbourhood watch guy handed out a notice from the police about theives using some sort of remote code grabber/whatever and gaining access to vehicles and nicking whatever than can find in there (satnavs, laptops etc). I laughed it off as the language used was technical crap; and probably based on old cars with crappy remote locking systems that can be easily cloned like, MG-Rovers etc.
Well my R32 is off the road at the moment and I'm using the fabled and mouldy BMW e46 325. I parked it outside on the drive next to our other BMW (e39 530).
This morning I came to it and found it unlocked. Dammit, I must have caught the remote or forgot to lock it (remote is a bit dodgy), someone had been inside it as the glove box and cubby holes were all open. Luckily the only thing missing was some keys to a house that was knocked down last year (they'll have fun breaking into there
).
Feeling stupid, I went about loading my junk in the back and noted the other BMW was unlocked...now that was definetly locked last night!!
Luckily nothing missing barring the keys, as there was nothing of worth kept in either car, but I'm left stunned that what I thought was a pretty secure remote locking has actually been hacked! There are no signs of forced entry and the doors deadlock so can't be opened from the inside, and opening with a key would trigger the alarm.
I'll try to catch some other BMW owners on the estate and see if they've been victim. The only thing I noted last night was a black Audi Q-thing parked across our drive entrance, but I assumed it was someone visting next door.
Either way, I'm pretty freaked out.
Well my R32 is off the road at the moment and I'm using the fabled and mouldy BMW e46 325. I parked it outside on the drive next to our other BMW (e39 530).
This morning I came to it and found it unlocked. Dammit, I must have caught the remote or forgot to lock it (remote is a bit dodgy), someone had been inside it as the glove box and cubby holes were all open. Luckily the only thing missing was some keys to a house that was knocked down last year (they'll have fun breaking into there
).Feeling stupid, I went about loading my junk in the back and noted the other BMW was unlocked...now that was definetly locked last night!!
Luckily nothing missing barring the keys, as there was nothing of worth kept in either car, but I'm left stunned that what I thought was a pretty secure remote locking has actually been hacked! There are no signs of forced entry and the doors deadlock so can't be opened from the inside, and opening with a key would trigger the alarm.
I'll try to catch some other BMW owners on the estate and see if they've been victim. The only thing I noted last night was a black Audi Q-thing parked across our drive entrance, but I assumed it was someone visting next door.
Either way, I'm pretty freaked out.
Last edited by ALi-B; 10 October 2010 at 08:12 PM.
10 October 2010, 09:14 PM
#7
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Most remotes can't be captured these days as they send multiple random signals. A sort of "hello I'm the remote" and a "I'm the car, can you send a different number based on this xyz?" as so on.
Never thought about a jammer, that is quite easy and would work well.
Steve
Never thought about a jammer, that is quite easy and would work well.
Steve
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10 October 2010, 09:24 PM
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In recent months i have noticed that my "plinker" sometimes doesn't work (whether locking or unlocking) and i am sure that someone is using a jammer nearby (the last time was in an Asda car park).
A jammer is pretty indiscriminate, but it only takes one person in the vicinity to fail to lock their doors to make it worthwhile for the scummy underclass
mb
10 October 2010, 09:27 PM
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10 October 2010, 09:29 PM
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+1
In recent months i have noticed that my "plinker" sometimes doesn't work (whether locking or unlocking) and i am sure that someone is using a jammer nearby (the last time was in an Asda car park).
A jammer is pretty indiscriminate, but it only takes one person in the vicinity to fail to lock their doors to make it worthwhile for the scummy underclass
mb
In recent months i have noticed that my "plinker" sometimes doesn't work (whether locking or unlocking) and i am sure that someone is using a jammer nearby (the last time was in an Asda car park).
A jammer is pretty indiscriminate, but it only takes one person in the vicinity to fail to lock their doors to make it worthwhile for the scummy underclass
mb
10 October 2010, 10:02 PM
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10 October 2010, 10:27 PM
#15
2 years ago about 15 cars over several nearby Closes were robbed in one night in an unexplained way , including our 07 Forester.
I went to the car and found it unlocked (car gave the wrong beep) and saw that it had been rifled through but there was nothing to steal.
Oddly, the interior light had been turned off and the passenger door left slightly open but still on its latch.
For those robbed neighbours who checked, they also had the same door just slightly open.
As these are small Closes where we know each other and their cars, anyone hanging around would have been very obvious - so the break-ins were a bit odd and thankfully none have happened since.
I went to the car and found it unlocked (car gave the wrong beep) and saw that it had been rifled through but there was nothing to steal.
Oddly, the interior light had been turned off and the passenger door left slightly open but still on its latch.
For those robbed neighbours who checked, they also had the same door just slightly open.
As these are small Closes where we know each other and their cars, anyone hanging around would have been very obvious - so the break-ins were a bit odd and thankfully none have happened since.
10 October 2010, 11:29 PM
#17
Thing is, I'm fairly savvy of the systems in use; it uses a rolling code algorithm of quite a long bit length (40bits is often quoted). Grabbing the remote signal should not pose any risk to security. It would take a serious mathematician to work out the next code sequence and backwards engineer the algorithm to anticipate the next "random" code, and then it would need someone with programming skills to code it into a microcontroller and automate it (probably a PIC of some sort I guess), then an electronics whizz to integrate the microcontroller with a reciever/transmitter. What I'm saying is this far from plug and play technology here.
The only other way I'd guess is to bombared the car with random codes repeatedly until opened. Bearing in mind the car would only accept a certain amount of codes in a given time so this would take quite some time.
Either way the equipment required seems a bit excessive for a ****** after ipods and satnavs? Or is that what the "pros" are after these days? Seems a bit small fry if you ask me.
The only other way I'd guess is to bombared the car with random codes repeatedly until opened. Bearing in mind the car would only accept a certain amount of codes in a given time so this would take quite some time.
Either way the equipment required seems a bit excessive for a ****** after ipods and satnavs? Or is that what the "pros" are after these days? Seems a bit small fry if you ask me.
Last edited by ALi-B; 10 October 2010 at 11:40 PM.
11 October 2010, 08:49 AM
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11 October 2010, 09:14 AM
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A quick google reveals that euro remote keyless entry devices broadcast at ~433.92MHz.
So you could use this to locate the 'jammer' signal which would presumably be continuously broadcasting at the same frequency.
So you could use this to locate the 'jammer' signal which would presumably be continuously broadcasting at the same frequency.
11 October 2010, 09:38 AM
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Yep. I'd rather go back to check . 'just in case' the car's not locked. Mine does 'clunk' rather loudly when locked, plus flash the indicators, so it's easy enough to tell if it's secure, whether looking at it or not.
Dave
Dave
11 October 2010, 09:57 AM
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Few months back, the old neighbourhood watch guy handed out a notice from the police about theives using some sort of remote code grabber/whatever and gaining access to vehicles and nicking whatever than can find in there (satnavs, laptops etc). I laughed it off as the language used was technical crap; and probably based on old cars with crappy remote locking systems that can be easily cloned like, MG-Rovers etc.
Well my R32 is off the road at the moment and I'm using the fabled and mouldy BMW e46 325. I parked it outside on the drive next to our other BMW (e39 530).
This morning I came to it and found it unlocked. Dammit, I must have caught the remote or forgot to lock it (remote is a bit dodgy), someone had been inside it as the glove box and cubby holes were all open. Luckily the only thing missing was some keys to a house that was knocked down last year (they'll have fun breaking into there ).
Feeling stupid, I went about loading my junk in the back and noted the other BMW was unlocked...now that was definetly locked last night!!
Luckily nothing missing barring the keys, as there was nothing of worth kept in either car, but I'm left stunned that what I thought was a pretty secure remote locking has actually been hacked! There are no signs of forced entry and the doors deadlock so can't be opened from the inside, and opening with a key would trigger the alarm.
I'll try to catch some other BMW owners on the estate and see if they've been victim. The only thing I noted last night was a black Audi Q-thing parked across our drive entrance, but I assumed it was someone visting next door.
Either way, I'm pretty freaked out.
Well my R32 is off the road at the moment and I'm using the fabled and mouldy BMW e46 325. I parked it outside on the drive next to our other BMW (e39 530).
This morning I came to it and found it unlocked. Dammit, I must have caught the remote or forgot to lock it (remote is a bit dodgy), someone had been inside it as the glove box and cubby holes were all open. Luckily the only thing missing was some keys to a house that was knocked down last year (they'll have fun breaking into there
).Feeling stupid, I went about loading my junk in the back and noted the other BMW was unlocked...now that was definetly locked last night!!
Luckily nothing missing barring the keys, as there was nothing of worth kept in either car, but I'm left stunned that what I thought was a pretty secure remote locking has actually been hacked! There are no signs of forced entry and the doors deadlock so can't be opened from the inside, and opening with a key would trigger the alarm.
I'll try to catch some other BMW owners on the estate and see if they've been victim. The only thing I noted last night was a black Audi Q-thing parked across our drive entrance, but I assumed it was someone visting next door.
Either way, I'm pretty freaked out.
Les
11 October 2010, 09:58 AM
#26
The 530 was definetly locked though I remember hearing the motors, seeing the locking pins go down and me checking the handle.
The 325 I'll have to give benefit of doubt as the locking motors are quiet, and I don't recall checking it last night as my hands were full. However, there is a problem with the control unit in the rear roof spoiler (it houses the aerial for the radio and alarm amongst other things), as such, the range is about 6ft. So because of this at the very least I look for visual and audible confirmation of the central locking motors cycling.
Because of this I don't think either car was jammed. Its actually been opened. The one BMW is a certainty, there was no way it was left unlocked, it definetely was locked.
I've taken it as a warning shot not to keep expensive stuff in the cars. I rarely do though as I've been paranoid ever since soneone tried to nick my Escort twelve years ago
The 325 I'll have to give benefit of doubt as the locking motors are quiet, and I don't recall checking it last night as my hands were full. However, there is a problem with the control unit in the rear roof spoiler (it houses the aerial for the radio and alarm amongst other things), as such, the range is about 6ft. So because of this at the very least I look for visual and audible confirmation of the central locking motors cycling.
Because of this I don't think either car was jammed. Its actually been opened. The one BMW is a certainty, there was no way it was left unlocked, it definetely was locked.
I've taken it as a warning shot not to keep expensive stuff in the cars. I rarely do though as I've been paranoid ever since soneone tried to nick my Escort twelve years ago
11 October 2010, 10:03 AM
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The 530 was definetly locked though I remember hearing the motors, seeing the locking pins go down and me checking the handle.
The 325 I'll have to give benefit of doubt as the locking motors are quiet, and I don't recall checking it last night as my hands were full. However, there is a problem with the control unit in the rear roof spoiler (it houses the aerial for the radio and alarm amongst other things), as such, the range is about 6ft. So because of this at the very least I look for visual and audible confirmation of the central locking motors cycling.
Because of this I don't think either car was jammed. Its actually been opened. The one BMW is a certainty, there was no way it was left unlocked, it definetely was locked.
I've taken it as a warning shot not to keep expensive stuff in the cars. I rarely do though as I've been paranoid ever since soneone tried to nick my Escort twelve years ago
The 325 I'll have to give benefit of doubt as the locking motors are quiet, and I don't recall checking it last night as my hands were full. However, there is a problem with the control unit in the rear roof spoiler (it houses the aerial for the radio and alarm amongst other things), as such, the range is about 6ft. So because of this at the very least I look for visual and audible confirmation of the central locking motors cycling.
Because of this I don't think either car was jammed. Its actually been opened. The one BMW is a certainty, there was no way it was left unlocked, it definetely was locked.
I've taken it as a warning shot not to keep expensive stuff in the cars. I rarely do though as I've been paranoid ever since soneone tried to nick my Escort twelve years ago
11 October 2010, 10:09 AM
#28
Don't think so on those year cars. But the equipment I have available to me that can interface with BMWs is somewhat limited to fault codes, live data, adaptions and output tests (MT Pro and Launch X-431).
Last edited by ALi-B; 11 October 2010 at 10:10 AM.
11 October 2010, 10:18 AM
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It is worrying if they have managed to crack the ECU ability to cycle the code needed to unlock it again. That basically will give them unforced silent entry to any car who uses a compromised alarm system. Basically there is nothing we can do to stop that.
Most probably they have found a way around the security. Just as in trying to get through the front door of a windows computer is hard, there are still lots of backways in. Issue with cars is that they are a lot harder to update, and I don't see any manufacturer's coming forward to tell us that they know their system has been successfully hacked so that we can do something
If this becomes wide spread we will all have to go back to using good old fashioned keys to get into a car.
Most probably they have found a way around the security. Just as in trying to get through the front door of a windows computer is hard, there are still lots of backways in. Issue with cars is that they are a lot harder to update, and I don't see any manufacturer's coming forward to tell us that they know their system has been successfully hacked so that we can do something
If this becomes wide spread we will all have to go back to using good old fashioned keys to get into a car.
11 October 2010, 10:32 AM
#30
Hopefully its just BMW related in this case. If it happens again, that's just what I'll do; pull the fuse on the remote locking and just use the key.
Doors won't dead lock that way though - although deadlocking is bit pointless as all you need to do is punch out the door lock (old fashioned keyless entry
).
Doors won't dead lock that way though - although deadlocking is bit pointless as all you need to do is punch out the door lock (old fashioned keyless entry
).